Posted on 10/15/2010 5:39:02 PM PDT by delacoert
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[ ejonesie22 half states]
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[Stourme calls out]
Again we see the tactics of the Mormon haters. Half truths, lies, and inuendo. No context given just drama, "Oh noes Josepsh Smith created an army!!11".
It never ends with these people.
In 1839, Joseph Smith relocated his followers—the Mormons—from a hostile environment in Missouri to Commerce, Illinois which he renamed Nauvoo. Voter-conscious Illinois Democrats and Whigs (including Abraham Lincoln) passed a bipartisan city-state charter for Nauvoo in 1840. On December 16 the governor signed it into law, granting Smith and the city of Nauvoo broad powers. Among these was the authority to create a "body of independent militarymen." This force was a militia similar to others in Illinois, and it became known as the "Nauvoo Legion". At its peak, the militia had, by conservative estimates, at least 2,500 troops, in comparison to the approximately 8,500 troops within the entire United States Army as of 1845
The Nauvoo Legion was a militia originally organized by the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) to defend the city of Nauvoo, Illinois.
[ ejonesie22 bemoans] They will paint anything in a light of victim hood. It works on the weak and misinformed. We get called lots of things, we get used to it, expect it, embrace it.
[Stourme calls out]
Anti-Mormons painting themselves in the light of victim hood...mmkay. You poor poor martyrs. /grouphug
It works on the weak and misinformed, btw.
I have distant relatives in Utah whose ancestors converted to Mormonism and were run out of town in the 1800’s. The majority of the family didn’t and remained here. It always struck me as kind of cruel, but with such sabre-rattling I suppose I understand to some degree.
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[ Tennessee Nana hisses] Is there some slaughter of non-Mormons that is supposed to occur? In a way yes.. |
[Stourme calls out]
Another anti-Mormon bold faced lie. No, we Mormons are not plotting to kill you. Or anyone else.
How despicable can you get...
along with his 5,000 strong personal vigilante army of Danites, (cutthroats, etc) in Nauvoo in contrast to the only 8,500 strong United States army..
Every man in Nauvoo was enlisted in his army ...
there were 12,000 people in Nauvoo in 1840..it was 3X the size of Chicago..4470
There were 476,183 in the state of Illinois in 1840..
Joey Smith also petitioned Congress for permission to raise up his own 100,000 strong army..
The population in the US at the time was 17,069,453, with
He was turned down...
Oh noez..
Hmmmmmmmmmm
Wonder why ???
Now just WHY did Joey Smith need an army 1/4 the size of the state of Illinois ???
Any priesthood holder guesses ???
Its always heck on your nerves when the ugly truth of mo0rmonism is exposed...
Here have a beer and calm down...
I can only speak to my own family experiences in this regard. In the highly charged decades leading up to the Civil War, in the American South, with the likes of John Brown abroad in the country, such a statement as “Joseph Smith or the sword” certainly would be taken literally, and actions in Missouri and Illinois did little to allay that fear. So, to call it anti-Mormon and a baldfaced lie is not quite honest in and of itself.
You’re entitled to believe as you believe, I’ll support you wholeheartedly, and certainly expect you to reciprocate in kind. But, when your belief begins to encroach upon mine, there will be a problem. Live and let live, act to maintain as close a form of Godly governance as possible, while permitting the exercise of free will. That’s the American way, a way that allowed my ancestors to believe and worship as they saw fit, and allowed some of their descendants to establish a haven for themselves in Utah, to believe and to worship as they in turn saw fit.
Yes, there was ugliness in between. Don’t whitewash it, it’s too well documented and attempting to do so makes you appear a propagandist at best, to me at least. Deal in the truth. Mormons weren’t treated well at all by their countrymen, and there is shame in that. But, there were reasons for that poor treatment, that may appear not so serious in a modern light, that were regarded as quite serious at the time. There’s more than enough blame to go around. We’ve long since come to a truce and are on the same side, here.
Hey, there's some linkages to canonization I don't like...having a pet saint for example for the all the archers in the world. Or the off-shoot of praying to a saint.
I don't defend that. But since the word "canonization" simply means confirming people who were saints, are you going to be consistent here in what provokes you?
Surely you know what the term adiaphora (adiaphoron, plural) means? It's those things church bodies do that are neither commanded nor forbidden in Scripture. (And you can't tell me adiaphoron is limited to the RC church).
Examples:
* choir robes in church? Not in scripture (are you going to condemn those, too? If not, why not?)
* "When Anglican and Episcopal bishops are ordained, they are given symbols of their office: a large cross to wear on the chest, a ring, a chasuble (large outer cape), a miter (a large pointed hat) and a crosier (a staff shaped like a shepherd’s crook)." Source: http://wordalone.org/pdf/studyguide-discussion-questions.pdf
So are you going to condemn all those non-Scriptural things, too?
Lord’s Table: turning the bread and wine into the ACTUAL BODY AND BLOOD of Christ...not in Scripture.
I agree. But Christ's presence is still there in the bread and wine, right? If you look back over my two posts on this matter in this thread, all I did was point out that the RC aren't the only ones off-base to some degree on how the Lord's Supper is treated.
In fact, here, let me broaden it to another sacrament, baptism:
"Ordinance" connected with baptism: Not in scripture.
So, are you going to be consistent and condemn the churches that describe baptism as an "ordinance?"
Purgatory: not in Scripture
Never said it was. I disagree with purgatory as a teaching.
But, again, I was only contrasting and comparing on some of these things (like how it stacks up vs. baptism of the dead...in terms of degrees of measurement about how far the teachings were "off" from the Bible).
Sorry this is just too much for me today. I'm switching to Vodka. Lightweight posers with ego graphics and cool trite statements....what a trip! LOL Hey Elsie, can you draw boxes yet? Besides I'm working on fettuccini in butter garlic with a fine tender pork chop.
We will leave the martyrdom to your “prophet” thanks..
People don't embrace things if they feel they are victims there Storume...
The last thing any so called “anti” feels like is a victim. Comes from having the truth behind you time and time again.
For instance you paint a wonderful Mormon History based picture of the Nauvoo Legion. We can quibble over the numbers, you have “conservative” numbers of AT LEAST 2500, I say 5000 and have seen that number at least once in a Robert Millet talk I read so I will gladly say anywhere in that 2500-5000 range is a good bet. As it is the US army at that time period was from 7000-9000 men depending on the year so I average 7500 for the era.
But the question would become why would a prophet of god make himself a general, feel he need an army to defend Nauvoo against the neighbors he loved and while you are teaching us about the wonderful Legion share with us its role in the fortunately mostly peaceful “Utah War” against the US Army and its Southern Utah Battalion's role in the Mountain Meadow massacre among other issues....
No I’m sorry
You misunderstood
It’s stormy who needs the beer...
Give beer to those who are perishing...Proverbs 31:6
I thought you knew where the good beer was
Thats why I PINGed you...
Another anti-Mormon bold faced lie. No, we Mormons are not plotting to kill you. Or anyone else. [Stourme]
Yeah, as far as we know, the threats were yesteryear: A high number of Mormons had temple-access parents alive in 1926. Many Mormons at that time promised to fulfill the following Oath of Vengeance in the temple ceremony:
You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children's children unto the third and fourth generation. Source: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2335353/posts
Hey, why would the future Mormons want to commit mass murder, anyway, when outright slavery at least takes advantage of free labor?
What do I mean? LDS apostle Orson Hyde: “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)
And don’t forget the nice red Zinfandel.
Come on down!
Sorry I don’t know the scriptures. I do know perishing though and the posing idiot has perished from raw stupidity.
I have a bit of good beer here too.
I thought I remembered you posting pics of beer in the past
:)
Tuborg and Carlsberg in Copenhagen was wonderful. So were the Danish girls! Ahhh, wish I could go back fifty years.
Great job, Nana!
I am not suffering in the least though, just pulled two of my prize Boston butts off a 19 hour smoke and pulling them now for a church lunch tomorrow.
Sampling as I go of course.
Not saying there isn't more to learn about - just that I am VERY well read.
The direct occult manipulation was new to me, however.
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