Posted on 10/04/2010 12:57:36 PM PDT by Amerisrael
Art Vanick, co-author of The Spalding Enigma, Who Really Wrote The Book of Mormon, makes an appearance on Out of Mormonism to address the Glenn Beck Restoring Honor Rally.
Andy, Art, and Roger discuss the ramifications of the rally from a biblical Christian perspective.
Do Christians understand that Mormonism is different than biblical Christianity?
[ These are two separate "Out of Mormonism" radio podcasts from Mesa, Arizona. Very interesting.]
While Mormonism may not pose the violent / stealth and political threat that Islam does, from a spiritual standpoint, it is just as dangerous.
(Excerpt) Read more at outofmormonism.libsyn.com ...
“Put forth some effort. You do want the truth right? Prove it.”
And this from someone who can’t answer the simplest question. He wants readers to work hard!
That tells me it ain’t about the truth. It’s about protecting the cult.
“The answers are true whether you agree with them or not. “
That is simply a CLAIM. There is no proof offered that it is true.
No facts.
No evidence.
No logical argumentation.
Simply a wild claim, that falls unsupported onto the pavement.
There is absolutely no reason anyone should believe
non-factual, silly claims.
“Your cutesy little word games are tiresome.”
What a joke. SZ has forthrightly asked you questions that you refuse to answer. We all see it.
“You have nothing but old and tired anti-Mormon propaganda.”
Sorry. Mormon fail. SZ has lived it, as have Color Country and so very many others here, who are telling the truth about the cult of mormonism. Long before you showed up as the official link poster.
“The notion that you used to be LDS really carries no weight with me.”
Nothing carries weight, apparently. Your posts play the role of a mormonfanboi on these threads.
“You are far from the first to fall away from their faith whether it was the true Church or some other.”
When someone comes to the True God, we celebrate it here. I can’t think of anything better than falling away from a cult - whether mormonism or hare krishna.
“Some people, such as yourself I suspect, just need something to complain about.”
Actually, it appears that you spend all your time on these threads posting complaints.
“Attacking the LDS Church, I suspect, simply gives you something to do whilst attempting to make yourself feel better about your choice.”
Here, you couldn’t be more wrong.
“And you have your fun little club here to support you.”
No club, but I’ll support him and every other actual Christian against cultists.
“I am sure the fact that I used to be an anti-Mormon attack goon carries no weight with you either.”
I don’t believe that claim for a minute. I think it is bull.
“Strange how we went such different directions.”
I don’t think so. His direction took courage. Yours requires just cowardice.
“I guess we’ll call it even but I’ll welcome you back if you ever do make it.”
It ain’t even. He’s a Christian now. :-)
Christians don’t join cults.
Bottom line is that your posts have not offered anything to these threads at all. Not a single thing. Your posts are simply a mormonic google service.
ampu
ping to the previous post - sorry I forgot to ping you initially
“Oh I know the doctrine and it’s obvious to anyone who looks into it. I know that going back and forth with an anti-Mormon attack squad member is pointless. It would go on and on and do no good whatsoever. Been there. Done that.”
TRANSLATION:
Whine, whimper. I don’t want to answer. I can never win
and I have nothing to prove a single claim!
I can never win
and I have nothing to prove a single claim!
Well you finally got something right. I can never win. But not for the reason you think. I know I can never win because arguing with anti-Mormons with their arsenal of regurgitated propaganda is pointless. Neither side can win. Been there and done that and from your side. So I choose not to play.
I do however give you all you need to open your eyes. Take the blinders off. Don’t take the easy way, take the truthful way. Someone on here called me a coward. They have it a bit backwards I am afraid.
I have given you all you need. It is your choice. Plain and simple.
And this from someone who can’t answer the simplest question. He wants readers to work hard!
I have given you the answers. You just can’t listen. Maybe it’s you with the cultish behavior eh? And it’s not that hard. But it does require a little effort. A little actual desire for the truth.
I’ve come to believe it is impossible for you or any Mormon to defend your cult. Why pretend? Just post links and say you gave an answer.
Um, yeah, you write a contradictory statement and I’M the confused or dishonest one...
Please, exactly how does that work again?
It wasn’t contradictory. Sorry it’s over your head.
Anyways facts are not open to interpretations, they stand on their own, hence the failure of Mormonism to present one shred of real evidence for it’s myths and fables. Argue doctrinal issues with in reason, but tangibles such as places, peoples and cultures either exist or they don’t.
False. I have given you all you need to research these claims.
If the term “apologist” is new to you or beyond your understanding perhaps a little reading out side of the fiction section will be of benefit.
Cute. No one here has claimed to be an apologist. I know what one is. You can find some at the links I provided though since you seem to want to talk to one so badly. Give it a shot.
Been there. Done that.
When?
About 14-15 years ago.
Did you even try to look this up? I mean other than with your anti-Mormon buddies?
Cmon... you can do it. I’ll hold your hand just this once. Let’s do #2. Go to http://www.fairlds.org/ and search Jesus Married.
You’ll see several returns including this one http://en.fairmormon.org/Jesus_Christ/Was_Jesus_married that even includes your own quote. GASP!
Footnotes
1. "We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).
"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith.... The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries.... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).
2."Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).
"There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).
"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).
"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346). "One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that great loved Jesus, such as Mary and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them and associated with the much; and when he arose from the dead, instead of first showing himself to his chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them--namely, Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 159).
I still can't quite figure out how posting the actual quotes of your religion's leadership, showing the peculiar nature of your Mormon DOCTRINE is propaganda. But then I don't belong to the cult, so I have no hive ears with which to hear the buzz, skippy.
“I’ve come to believe it is impossible for you or any Mormon to defend your cult. Why pretend? Just post links and say you gave an answer.”
Says the man with his head in the sand.
Or perhaps these from Orson Hyde ...
."Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).
"There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).
Do you personally believe Jesus had wives with whom he tried to father children? Come on, you can tell us! Do you have a Temple Recommend which requires you to support your leaders' teachings?
The Mormon doctrine of eternal progression teaches that God the Father was once a man, who progressed to Godhood through obedience to certain laws and ordinances. Part of this obedience involved getting married to a woman ("The Heavenly Mother"), who gives birth to God’s spirit children, who are sent to earth to inhabit bodies of flesh and bone. These spirit children, if they are Mormons, remain obedient to the laws of the Mormon Church, and are married in the Mormon temple, have the potential to become gods themselves. They will produce spirit children and rule their own planet. This process is then repeated.
Start over.
I have yet to see in all of these threads discussing mormon doctrine any attempts by mormon apologiests to really defend their doctrine.
You imply that you have defended your doctrine many times and view it as pointless to do so now, but can’t you see that you come across as not being able to defend your faith. You spend the effort of providing links to other websites and engage in personal attacks, but you can’t seem to bother with providing logical counterpoints to other viewpoints.
It’s obvious to anyone who is not spiritually blind that you can’t defend mormonism.
So acknowledging in one sentence that the materials have been seen by us then in the very next sentence saying that we have not looked at them is not contradictory.
Well I guess I can see that as being so in "Mormon world"...
In the real one, not so much...
That does explain a lot and further supports my thoughts that you were indeed a former "anti" along with probably a list of other things..
But thanks for continuing to try and hide your mistake(s) in worthless blather and spin, it just makes it better and better...
Oh wait, you did not make a mistake using LDS standards...
I forgot.
False. I have given you all you need to research these claims.
And I have, and they are STILL FALSE, no artifacts, no ruins, no DNA...
Maybe you have more somewhere...
God the Eternal Father.
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