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To: count-your-change

You wrote:

“A New Translation of the Bible by James Moffatt (1948), The Authentic New Testament by Hugh J. Schonfield(1956), The New Testament-A Translation by William Barclay(1968)
translate Matthew 26:26, (estin) as “means” or “signifies” by paying attention to the context.”

And that’s just rubbish. I really think you need to buy this book: http://www.amazon.com/Not-Bread-Alone-Robert-Sungenis/dp/1579181244

You also might want to read this: http://www.amazon.com/This-My-Body-Evangelical-Discovers/dp/0931888484

There were words in Hebrew and Aramaic which meant “represent” or “signify”. Christ used none of them at the Last Supper. He meant what He said as He said it.

And, as usual, you Protestants can’t agree with one another:

From the Larger Catechism (Lutheran):

8] Now, what is the Sacrament of the Altar?

Answer: It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, in and under the bread and wine which we Christians are commanded by the Word of Christ to eat and to drink. 9] And as we have said of Baptism that it is not simple water, so here also we say the Sacrament is bread and wine, but not mere bread and wine, such as are ordinarily served at the table, but bread and wine comprehended in, and connected with, the Word of God.

10] It is the Word (I say) which makes and distinguishes this Sacrament, so that it is not mere bread and wine, but is, and is called, the body and blood of Christ. For it is said:, Accedat verbum ad elementum, et fit sacramentum. If the Word be joined to the element, it becomes a Sacrament. This saying of St. Augustine is so properly and so well put that he has scarcely said anything better. The Word must make a Sacrament of the element, else it remains a mere element. 11] Now, it is not the word or ordinance of a prince or emperor, but of the sublime Majesty, at whose feet all creatures should fall, and affirm it is as He says, and accept it with all reverence, fear, and humility.

12] With this Word you can strengthen your conscience and say: If a hundred thousand devils, together with all fanatics, should rush forward, crying, How can bread and wine be the body and blood of Christ? etc., I know that all spirits and scholars together are not as wise as is the Divine Majesty in His little finger. 13] Now here stands the Word of Christ: Take, eat; this is My body; Drink ye all of it; this is the new testament in My blood, etc. Here we abide, and would like to see those who will constitute themselves His masters, and make it different from what He has spoken. It is true, indeed, that if you take away the Word or regard it without the words, you have nothing but mere bread and wine. 14] But if the words remain with them, as they shall and must, then, in virtue of the same, it is truly the body and blood of Christ. For as the lips of Christ say and speak, so it is, as He can never lie or deceive.

From the Apology of the Augsburg Confession:

We have cited these testimonies, not to undertake a discussion here concerning this subject, for His Imperial Majesty does not disapprove of this article, but in order that all who may read them may the more clearly perceive that we defend the doctrine received in the entire Church, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered with those things which are seen, bread and wine. And we speak of the presence of the living Christ [living body]; for we know that death hath no more dominion over Him, Rom. 6, 9.


483 posted on 09/23/2010 10:09:30 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998
“There were words in Hebrew and Aramaic which meant “represent” or “signify”. Christ used none of them at the Last Supper. He meant what He said as He said it.”

So which Hebrew and Aramaic words DID Christ use at the Last Supper? You say he used or didn't use certain words, please tell us what Hebrew or Aramaic words he actually DID use? You're able to say what is “rubbish” so tell us, I can't wait!!

But since we have what Matthew wrote in Greek then we have to go by what words he chose. And since Matthew certainly knew both Hebrew and Greek I am certain he could choose the right Greek words to use (estin), Estin, which because of the context and its use by other Gospel writers is properly translated “means” or “signifies”.

I will take their testimony over your recommended books.

The Augsburg Confession and the Lutheran Catechism I'll leave to the Lutherans for their expression of beliefs and guide, they are not relevant here.

519 posted on 09/23/2010 11:18:43 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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