Posted on 09/05/2010 6:42:11 AM PDT by pastorbillrandles
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.(Romans 4:9-12)
Was Abraham blessed by God because he was circumcised,and kept God’s statutes and commands? Was that how Abraham was so blessed? Or was it the other way around? That is, that Abraham believed in the gospel, was justified, and as an outcome of that justification, he was circumcised and conformed to God’s will.
Our text tells us that it is the second option. As a sinner , Abraham believed God, and was justified before God. All of Abraham’s good works came as a result of his justification, and outflow of being made the friend of God.
It was while Abraham was uncircumcised, that God reckoned righteousness unto him. All Abraham could say of himself was, that as an idolator , he met the LORD, who told him the good news of the one who would come through his loins, to bless every family on earth. He simply believed God.
Abraham was justified by God before any of his children were born. But he was not circumcised until his son Ishmael was 13 years old. He was justified well before he rendered any ‘works’ unto God. Saving faith in God’s promise is the cause and not the effect of all good works.
Why does it matter which came first, Abraham’s faith or his works? it matters because it is deeply ingrained in the human heart to want to earn God’s blessings, to put God in debt to ourselves. This is almost the default position of humanity, to try to earn our own way, to obligate God to ourselves by our own works. It is humbling to have to be rescued by a free gift.
It is critical to understand once and for all that God cannot and will not be indebted to any man. The only way to be saved is to humbly accept by faith the gift of God’s righteousness, and that it would be impossible to earn it.
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. (Romans 11:34-36)
The difference between Salvation by God’s grace and a religion that seeks to earn life by works, or obligate God, is the difference between Life and death, pride and humility, true spirituality and humanism, and even ultimately it will be the difference between heaven and hell.
Abraham was not justified by being circumcised , his circumcision came more that thirteen years after his justification. The circumcision was a seal, an evidence of his God given righteousness, it was an effect and not a cause. Abraham the idolator was justified and included in God’s purposes only by the free love and choice of the Holy God.
He is called the Father of all who believe because in Abraham, God took an idolator,revealed Himself to Him, preached the gospel to him, gave him faith to believe, justified him, and made him the Father of true faith for all time. That is the story of my life and countless millions of others also.
Though I am not physically a child of Abraham, my encounter with God as a sinner, who simply believed the gospel when it came to me, who was willing as a result of this faith, to “leave my Father’s land and kindred”(morally and spiritually) puts me in spiritual affinity with Abraham.
This is the teaching of Jesus, to the physical seed of Abraham, that it is spiritual affinity with Abraham that counts with God, not physical blood relation alone,
They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham…Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.(John 8:39-40,56)
Therefore Abraham is ever the type , not only of the true Hebrew, (literally means One who crosses over”), but of all believing gentiles. The common thread is faith in the gospel of God. Abraham believed in Jesus, he believed in the gospel, and was justified by God.
The entire OT is about Jesus..He is there in types and shadows and holidays .He is in the temple...The OT was a revelation about the Savior
The scriptures do not say Abraham was saved by obedience..for he was disobedient.. The scriptures say Abraham was chosen by God to be the ancestral father of HIS people.God spoke to Abraham ...
Scripture tells us that the “Angel of the LORD”(which is always considered a Christology ) appeared to Abraham and spoke with him face-to-face...So Abraham Knew and talked to Christ.
In Exodus He reveals Himself in a burning bush saying that He is “I AM.”.. When told that it was Jesus of Nazareth, He said that “I AM.”
Abraham Knew Christ and believed Him and that is why his name is in the parade of faith and NOT works
Works do not save
I’m so sorry that you do not believe that you must carry your own Cross each day, thus serving the Lord.
Luke 14:25-33
That is something you can't support by scripture. You can ignore principles of hermeneutics and eisegetically CREATE that result but Jesus is not there, not at all.
The scriptures do not say Abraham was saved by obedience..for he was disobedient..
You could not be more wrong. Genesis 26 says:
4 I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring [a] all nations on earth will be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws." 6 So Isaac stayed in Gerar.
G-d was pleased with Abraham. And that is why he made His covenant with Abraham.
Scripture tells us that the “Angel of the LORD”(which is always considered a Christology ) appeared to Abraham and spoke with him face-to-face...So Abraham Knew and talked to Christ.
That is an example of eisgesis. So cant just say an angel is Jesus, it has to be backed up by scripture. G-d revealed Himself to all the Patriarcs as HaShem (G-d) and no other. If G-d would have had a shared triune identity, he would have CLEARLY said so. But he didnt. The final opportunity for that revelation was at Sinai when the Torah was given. And G-d made it clear he was ALONE. No other...no other Rock...No other Savior. So that is it. It is impossible to then say 1500 years later....There is another (Jesus)! You cant do the law...even though I told you could (Dt 30) and now you need to believe in Jesus....who is really me! A god-man who did the law perfect! (Even though I never expected you to do that) So I did it in the flesh for you! (cheating) And even though I told you not to perform human sacrifice (Deut 12:30-31), I am going to sacrifice my human son! And even though I told you you are responsible for your own sin (Ezek 18)....your not! He will do it for you!
So many things G-ds forbids...Jesus does..G-d forbids unkosher slaughter for a sacrifice, Jesus dies by suffocating not having his throat slit. Jesus dies outside the city, the Sin sacrifice is killed at the alter. The Sin sacrifice has it's blood sprinkled on the alter. Jesus blood wasnt sprinkled on the alter. The sin sacrifce had its entrails burned...Jesus didnt. And on and on it goes.
Christians want Jesus to be something he can not be, nor did G-d ever intend. The Messiah is just a man not a god-man. Animals are sacrifices not men. We are responsible for our own sin, not another human being.
The cross is a symbol of DEATH ,the apostles knew what Christ was talking about. It is not about religious ceremonies; or tradition and spiritual feelings. The cross was a way to execute people.
The man carrying a cross knows he can not save himself. The man carrying a cross is already condemned
“Cross bearing does not refer to some irritation in life. Rather, it involves the way of the cross. The picture is of a man, already condemned, required to carry his cross on the way to the place of execution, as Jesus was required to do.” (Wessel)
You wrote
That is something you can't support by scripture. You can ignore principles of hermeneutics and eisegetically CREATE that result but Jesus is not there, not at all.
Luke 24:25 He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! [26] Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" [27] And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
Luk 24:44 ¶ And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations
The OT was a revelation of Christ to the jewish people, because of their blindness they could not see.. and so they did not know Christ when He came ...
Please take some time to study
http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Christ-Old-Testament
http://www.tecmalta.org/tft155.htm
I wrote...Scripture tells us that the “Angel of the LORD”(which is always considered a Christology ) appeared to Abraham and spoke with him face-to-face...So Abraham Knew and talked to Christ.
You wrote.. That is an example of eisgesis. So cant just say an angel is Jesus,
Let us now consider the abundant evidence which identifies the angel of the LORD as God (or as Jehovah). The reader is encouraged to read through each of these passages thoughtfully.
1. Genesis 16:7-13 The angel of the LORD promised to do something that only God can do (see v.10). Hagar knew that it was Jehovah who spoke to her (v.13) and she identified the angel of the LORD as God: "Thou God seest me" (v.13).
2. Genesis 21:17-20 The angel of the God promised to do something only God can do (see v.18). This angel is identified as God (v.19).
3. Genesis 22:15-18 The angel of Jehovah is speaking (verses 15-16) and yet verse 16 makes it clear that it is Jehovah who is speaking ("saith the LORD")! In verses 17-18 the angel of Jehovah promises to do what only God can do.
4. Genesis 31:11-13 The angel of God (v.11) identifies Himself as God: "I am the God of Bethel" (v.13).
5. Exodus 3:2-7 The angel of Jehovah appeared to Moses out of the midst of a burning bush and identified Himself as God (verses 4 and 6) and as Jehovah (verses 4 and 7).
6. Exodus 14:19-21 The angel of God does what only God can do (verses 19-20) and is identified with the glorious manifestation of God in the pillar of the cloud (verses 19-20). In verse 21 this angel is identified as "the LORD" (Jehovah).
7. Exodus 23:20-23 This passage makes it clear that Jehovah’s angel is much more than a mere angel: Jehovah’s "name is in Him" (v.21) and God’s people must "obey His voice" (v.21). Indeed, He has the authority to "pardon your transgressions" or not to pardon them, and who can forgive sins but God alone? Notice that the angel is distinct from God and sent by God. The LORD said, "Behold, I send an angel before thee." We are reminded of New Testament parallels as the Son was distinct from the Father and sent by the Father (John 3:17; etc.) and yet equal to the Father (John 5:18; John 10:30).
8. Judges 2:1-3 The angel of Jehovah says things that only God could say. God is the One who brought them into the land which He swore to give unto their fathers (v.1). God is the One who promised to never break His covenant (v.1).
9. Judges 6:11-24 As you follow this passage, pay close attention to who is speaking to Gideon: in verse 12 the angel of Jehovah is speaking; in verse 14 Jehovah is speaking; in verse 16 Jehovah is speaking; in verse 20 the angel of God is speaking. Jehovah and the angel of Jehovah are one and the same.
10. Judges 13:3-23 Note especially verses 17-18. Manoah said to the angel of Jehovah, "What is Thy Name?" (v.17) and the angel of Jehovah said, "Why asketh thou thus after My Name, seeing it is secret?" The word "secret" may be translated "wonderful." It is the same Hebrew word found in Isaiah 9:6 – "His Name shall be called wonderful." In Isaiah 9:6 the term is used as a name of Christ who is also called "the Mighty God." The fact that Jehovah’s angel was God was certainly known by Manoah. After the angel of Jehovah appeared to him Manoah said, "We have seen God!" (v.22).
Note: There are two other passages where the angel of the LORD is obviously identified as God: 1) Psalm 34:7 (it is God who delivers His people, see Psalm 34:4,6,17,19 and it is God that we are to fear, see Psalm 34:9,11) and 2) Isaiah 63:9 (an obvious reference to God).
See C. I. Scofield's excellent note summarizing what the Scripture teaches concerning the angel of the LORD (pages 289-290 in the New Scofield Bible, his note under Joshua 2:1).
Conclusion: The angel of the Jehovah is distinct from Jehovah and yet is identified as Jehovah, even as the Lord Jesus Christ is distinct from God the Father (as a distinct Person of the Trinity) and yet is identified as God. He is both the Son of God and God the Son. To Him be glory and honor both now and forever more!
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/deity09.htm I would suggest a serious study of Christology . It is an accepted tenet of Christianity that the Angel of the Lord was the pre incarnate Christ
http://christology.theologytraining.com/
That’s your own interpretation of scripture. YOPIOS.
Carry your own Cross is about suffering each and every day, hardly being able to wait until we join Jesus Christ in heaven.
You can’t tell me that everyone’s life here on earth is NOT filled with suffering. That’s not death — you’ve been a nurse too long to realize that. That’s just life! *A mortal one, yes, but nevertheless it is our life on earth.)
**I was pulled in and lead when my son was dying of cancer. He wanted to attend Mass w/mom and day and I said well I would like to go also.
The minute I walked into the Church, the Holy Spirit grabbed me and showed me the way.**
Thanks for sharing this part of your story — your part about carrying your own private Cross here on earth. It is so difficult to lose a child. May the Lord bless you and comfort you in your grief.
PS. Appreciation for the kind words.
Just because Luke states these things doesnt make them true. There is no specificity of which scriptures were allegedly fulfilled. And as I noted in the last post, G-d isnt going to change His mind, Numbers 23:19, Change his salvation program midstream. That would make G-d either duplicitous or a liar. G-d says the Law is forever (Psalm 111, Deut 4). Not even G-d can then change that plan and introduce a no-law salvation program. This is evident in many endtime passages in the Tanakh where G-d says the Law is in place and the gentiles will come to Jerusalem to learn of G-d and the law.(Isaiah 2:3) The temple will be rebuilt, sacrifices return and the preisthood also.
The OT was a revelation of Christ to the jewish people, because of their blindness they could not see.. and so they did not know Christ when He came ...
Not at all. The Tanakh is very clear about what must occur when Messiah comes. And Jesus didnt fulfill those requirements, otherwise there would be no second coming (also not in scripture).
Angels are G-ds messengers and nothing more.
...Indeed, He has the authority to "pardon your transgressions"
It doesnt say that. It says he wont forgive them...sheesh.
Conclusion: The angel of the Jehovah is distinct from Jehovah and yet is identified as Jehovah,
You said it was Jesus. It was not. These are not G-d in the flesh either. These are Angels who are the messengers or mouthpieces of G-d. Not a pre-incarnate Jesus. Again, No scriptures to back it up.
Rose- What a Story. That’s beautiful witness. Thanks for sharing!
Just one more thought
From that site worthy considering
The Targum calls him a prophet and the Jewish commentators in general interpret it of Phinehas and that a man is meant is given into by others, because he is said to come from a certain place in Canaan, and not from heaven, and spoke in a public congregation, and is not said to disappear;
but neither a man nor a created angel is meant, or otherwise he would have spoken in the name of the Lord, and have said, “thus saith the Lord”, and not in his own name; ascribing to himself the bringing of the children of Israel out of Egypt, and swearing to them, and making a covenant with them, and threatening what he would do to them because of their sin; wherefore the uncreated Angel, the Angel of the covenant, is meant, who brought Israel out of Egypt, was with them in the wilderness, and introduced them into the land of Canaan, and appeared to Joshua as the Captain of the Lord’s host at or near Gilgal, Joshua 5:13 (Gill, J. Exposition of the Entire Bible)
Wow, simply amazing. I can't believe the length some people will go to shoe-horn Jesus into the scriptures. This is ALL, sorry to be blunt, nonsense. The plain reading of the Tanakh could not be more clear. G-d has NO form.
He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the LORD directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess.
Idolatry Forbidden 15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven.
It could not be more clear. NO FORM. And not ONCE do any of these angels say they are Jesus, the second part of the trinity. Why not? Dont you think G-d would be VERY CLEAR about His nature? Why just not come right out and SAY IT, at Sinai G-d would have said to ALL of Israel. I AM THREE in one. G-d never says he is three or two...only One.
1Exodus 20:2-3 The first of the Ten Commandments I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, and of the land of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me. (see also Deuteronomy 5:7)
Deuteronomy 4:11-12 You came near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. Then the Lord spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no image; there was only a voice.
Deuteronomy 4:35 You are the ones who have been shown, so that you will know that God is the Supreme Being, and there is none other besides Him!
Deuteronomy 4:39 Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the Lord, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other!
Deuteronomy 6:14 You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you!
Deuteronomy 32:39 See, now, that I, I am He -- and no god is with Me.
I Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the Lord, for there is none beside Thee; neither is there any Rock like our God.
I Kings 8:27 For will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee, how much less this house that I have built?
I Kings 8:60 So that all the nations of the earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other!
II Kings 19:19 Now, O Lord our God, deliver us from his hand, so that all kingdoms on earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God
Isaiah 40:18 To whom then will you liken God? To what likeness will you compare unto Him?
Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will you liken Me, that I should be his equal?" says the Holy One.
Isaiah 42:8 I am the Lord, that is My name, and My glory will I not give to another. Neither My praise to graven images!
Isaiah 43:10-11 "You are My witnesses," declares the Lord, "and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior."
Isaiah 44:6-8 This is what the Lord says, Israel's King and Redeemer, the Lord Almighty, "I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no God! Who then is like Me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and lay out before Me . . . . Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are My witnesses. Is there any God besides Me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one."
Isaiah 44:24 Thus said the Lord, your Redeemer, the One who formed you from the womb, "I am the Lord Who makes everything, Who stretched forth the heavens alone, Who spread out the earth by Myself."
Isaiah 45:5-6 I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God; I will strengthen you . . . . In order that they know from the shining of the sun and from the west that there is no one besides Me; I am the Lord and there is no other!
Isaiah 45:21-22 . . . Who announced this from before, who declared it from the distant past? Is it not I, the Lord, and there is no God apart from Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but Me. Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other!
Isaiah 46:5 To whom shall you liken Me and make Me equal and compare Me that we may be alike?
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the first things of old, that I am God and there is no other; I am God and there is none like Me.
Isaiah 48:11 . . . My honor I will not give to another.
Hosea 13:4 I am the Lord your God, Who brought you out of Egypt. You shall acknowledge no god but Me, no savior except Me!
Joel 2:27 You shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and I am the Lord your God, there is no other; and My people shall never be ashamed.
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one Father? Has not one God created us? Why should we betray, each one his brother, to profane the covenant of our forefathers?
Psalm 73:25 Whom have I in heaven but You? Earth has nothing I desire besides You.
Psalm 81:8-9 Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you; O Israel, if you would listen to Me! Let there be no strange god among you; nor shall you worship any foreign god.
Nehemiah 9:6 You alone are the Lord; You made the heavens, the heaven of the heavens and all their host, the earth and all that is upon it, the seas and all that is in them, and You give life to all, and the heavenly host bow down before You.
I Chronicles 17:20 O Lord, there is none like You, neither is there any god beside You, according to all that we have heard with our ears!
How much more clear does G-d have to be? NO OTHER G-D! According to all that we have heard WITH OUR OWN EARS.
So you expect me to then accept that G-d reveals himself completely different than what He says He is? NO! I would recommend going here: Bible Truth and here: Free Biblical Audio to read and listen to proper bibical exegesis. Start with the audio "painting Jesus into the scriptures" and it will become clear right away the trickery used to force Jesus into the scriptures. If you are a truth seeker it will be clear. If you are not a truth seeker....well you are on your own. I have been studying Christian apologetics for 20+ years and have heard it all. So, I challenge you to listen and read these things from the Jewish perspective.
**It could not be more clear. NO FORM. And not ONCE do any of these angels say they are Jesus, the second part of the trinity. Why not? Dont you think G-d would be VERY CLEAR about His nature? Why just not come right out and SAY IT, at Sinai G-d would have said to ALL of Israel. I AM THREE in one. G-d never says he is three or two...only One.**
Atta boy, go get dem trinitarians!
Nice long list of scriptures! You forgot another good verse:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
hmmm.....a child to be called “The mighty God, and The everlasting Father”......veerrry interesting.
So, what it boils down to, whether one believes that Jesus is the Christ or not, God will appear IN (’in’ as inside) the image of a man.
I’m Apostolic Pentecostal in doctrine, so you’ll get no argument from me about God being a trinity.
I’ll have more to say later, but I must take the wife out for dinner. (but she’s worth it, to say the least!)
Isaiah 9. like Isaiah 7, are passages taken out of context by the church , mostly due to bad tanslations of the Hebrew. Here is a fairly thorough examination of the text. You will see that it refers to King Hezekiah and is a historical passage not messianic. Hezekiah is mentioned 34 times in Isaiah.
In advance: Shana Tova! May HaShem grant you a great and prosperous year to come and to your family as well.
B'H
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