Posted on 09/03/2010 5:27:36 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
Glenn Beck has been in the news lately and, not surprisingly, so has his religion. Some have warned Christians to be wary of Beck, not because of his political views but because of his religious affiliation. He is, they say, not a real Christian.
I'm betting, though, that he is. I don't know Mr. Beck personally, but he belongs to the same church I do, and I'm a pretty mainstream member. I'll wager that his beliefs resemble mine.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth. I also believe in Jesus Christ, his only-begotten Son, the Lord of all humankind, who, before being born to the Virgin Mary, was the Jehovah of the Old Testament. I believe that Jesus Christ suffered under Pontius Pilate, that he was crucified, died and was buried. While his body lay in the tomb, he descended into the realm of the spirits of the dead and preached the gospel there. On the third day, Jesus rose, physically, from death. He ascended into heaven, where he sits at the right hand of the Father. He will return, however, in power and great glory, to judge the living and the dead. In the meantime, we can receive guidance from the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity.
I believe that Christ founded a church in order to teach his doctrine and administer the ordinances of salvation to all humanity and that the fellowship of the Saints, Christ's disciples, transcends not only all ethnic, cultural and national divisions but even death itself. I believe in the forgiveness of sins and the resurrection of the body, which are made possible only through the gracious Atonement of Jesus Christ, in whom we have our only hope of salvation. And, finally, I believe in everlasting life.
Some will have recognized that the structure and phrasing of the two paragraphs above were modeled, quite consciously, on the ancient "Apostles' Creed" — a text dating to roughly the late fifth century. In the modern translation favored by the Church of England, the Apostles' Creed reads as follows:
"I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended into hell. On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
"I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen."
Now, obviously, I've changed the language a bit. Mostly, I wanted to use more familiar or more typically Mormon terms. For instance, the word "catholic" is rarely used, nowadays, in its original sense of "universal" — it should be obvious that Henry VIII's church isn't announcing its surrender to the pope when it recites the Apostles' Creed — but Latter-day Saints do most definitely believe that the church established by Jesus has a universal mission.
More significantly, where the original Apostles' Creed says that Christ was "conceived by the Holy Spirit" ("conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto"), Latter-day Saints will want to insist that Jesus is the divine Son of God the Father. The scriptures are completely silent as to the mechanism of Christ's conception, and they do say that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary (Luke 1:35), but they also plainly declare that Jesus was and is "the Son of the Highest" (Luke 1:32). And emphasis on the fact that Jesus is the Son of God the Father scarcely seems a plausible basis for claiming that Latter-day Saints aren't Christians.
Believing what we do, because we agree so closely with the traditional Apostles' Creed, either Glenn Beck and I (and, for that matter, Mitt Romney and Harry Reid) are Christians, or those who formulated the creed and all those who have affirmed it during the centuries since then haven't been, either.
All Mormon “scholars” and/or apologist...
With just enough real study kicked in and carefully wrapped into the narrative to give it the “well it's plausible” feel...
LDS peer review and scholarship, like a Magician's assistant telling the audience, “No, that trick really was magical, I promise...”
Of course you do, it's your job to maintain the illusion...
Well to their credit it is better than outright figurative stealing of Mayan relics as “proof” of the BOM...
C or E
Mormonism opposes the clear teachings of the apostles and Christ as recorded in Gods Word. We identify that Mormonism doesn’t abide by the scripture nor that which Christ and His apostles taught
I understand that is your position (I don’t think you can speak for the entire Christian Community), and I take this as your personal opinion.
The truth of the matter is quite different.
You will never be privy to the sacred spiritual experiences I have had; the miracles I have witnessed
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Sounds like there may not be any of those to brag about
Christians usually tell about the things God has done for them..
Its calling witnessing..
God has healed me from cancer, a stroke, a crooked back, saved my life and thrown an attacker across a room for starters..
Why would anyone refuse to be thankful to Jesus for what He has done for them ???
Its part of worship..
And although I am special to Him, I am not alone..
What He will do for me, He will do for anyone..
false religion of mormonism placemarker
i just wish you’d treat us the same way we treat you.
___________________________________________________
So you want to be treated this way or worse ???
To the Mormon Woman Who Was Nasty To Me For Wearing a Sleeveless Top
This was posted in the Provo Craigslist rant and rave section on Sept. 5th. Even if, as a non-mo, you don’t hear anything, you will certainly get nasty looks or disapproving glances.
______________________________________________
To the Mormon woman who was nasty to me for wearing a sleeveless top:
I was visiting Utah because my husband, who is a professor at a university at another state, had a conference at BYU. We brought our 2 year-old son with us and thought this would be a fun vacation. Vacationing in Utah was anything but fun for myself or my family. My husband and I were shocked at the level of judgment and just all around nastiness we encountered from the Mormons of the Provo area.
Even though we put up with countless rude words during our few days here and overall bizare behavior, the woman eating dinner with her overweight husband at the Lindon Wallaby’s on Friday evening took the cake. She had ivory colored polyester pants hiked up high on her waist, with a skinny belt and a top tucked in. She had brown straight hair just past her chin, with glasses. She dressed like she was 60, even though I think she may have been in her twenties or early thirties. I’m in my early thirties and dress appropriately. I’m modest. I just am not Mormon and do not hold the same belief system as Mormons. I personally believe that it matters more how kind we are to our fellow man, than what kind of underwear others have on, but I digress. My top was very tasteful. It was well made. While it was sleeveless (it was HOT outside!!!!), it was extremely modest. It came nearly to my shoulders and while it had a scoop neck, it came up pretty high for a scoop neck. It was long, to my hips, but was loose, not form fitting. I am in shape and take excellent care of myself, but always dress modestly. It does NOT make me a slut because I take good care of my body.
This pious woman turned around in her chair and wouldn’t stop staring at me while I was getting my son out of the high chair. Her husband and she were both staring at me and talking to each other loudly enough for me to hear. Apparantly, they were offended at what I’m wearing and that caused them to QUESTION WHAT KIND OF MOM I AM!! Because I had a sleeveless, modest top on! I am an excellent mother. My son and I had a very lovely dinner and were laughing with each other and working on his words (he just turned two) during our meal. Our time and meal were ruined by this couple. They made me feel horrible about myself and I have no idea why, as I am usually a confident person, but the Mormons have turned making others feel like a piece of trash into an art form. That is how I have felt the whole time I have been here to Utah. Like trash.
I have been watching those “I’m a Mormon” ads where I am from and was curious to find out what Mormons are like IRL. As a fellow Christian, I expected them to act the same way Christians act in my congregation—with respect and kindness towards each other. At the very least, they should be grateful others are spending their hard earned dollars traveling in their state.
I plan on telling everyone I know exactly what the Mormons in Utah are like. They are nothing like those actors in the ‘I’m a Mormon’ commercials. I plan on spreading the word. I don’t know what you people’s problem is. I don’t know if you judged me because you figured I was a Mormon who took the same vows you took to not wear sleevless clothing or what. It is legal to wear sleevless tops with capris in this state, right? Because you guys made me feel like a worthless piece of white trash, even though I have a PhD and am an excellent mother. I even quit work until my son is in preschool so that I could be a SAHM and mother him the best that I see fit. What does the clothing I choose to wear (it was modest) have to do with my mother capabilites? Why be so nasty to someone because of a modest sleeveless, tasteful top? It was even loose fitting. Why was that necessary? How is this a sign of someone’s character? I feel that it is a better sign of someone’s character that they turn and stare at someone’s chest area and make nasty comments, while speculating about the stranger’s underwear. As a woman who was alone with a small child, I felt very uneasy about this rude intrusion, all while I was just trying to have a nice meal with my son. :-(
I guess it made it all make more sense why we were treated so horribly by everyone the whole time we were here. It was hot, so I had also worn shorts with a T-shirt the day before. I have never in my life been given so many dirty looks or made to feel so horribly about myself. I am a woman with good self-esteem and am very kind to people I meet, so normally have the exact opposite experience as I did in Utah. You guys can have your state and your stupid religion that makes people act like jerks. Good riddance!!!! I have a friend who was looking into your church and I already told her all about you people. She has called the missionaries to tell them, “no more”. Thank goodness she will remain the kind, loving, Christlike person she already is. The world could definitely do with one less Mormon.
Please remember that outside of Utah, there is a whole world that takes place. In this world, people are good and are just trying to live their lives with their families. You have not cornered the market on religion or family values—by any stretch of the imagination. There are people out there who do not dress like pilgrims, but who are still great loving people and parents. I don’t even drink alcohol, so thought I would fit in fine, but I guess I forgot that to dress like a nun in 90 degree weather, so I am judged as evil white trash. You complain that the rest of the world persecutes you, but I think you have a perseuction complex. Maybe if you weren’t so nasty and judgmental to people, they would be nice back to you. It’s worth a try. What do you say? Wanna trade some of your ugly clothing for a smile or some good old Christian charity?
Signed,
Grateful to be away from the Mormons
Yes, the fundamental Mormon polygamist that I know want to be known as Mormons.
Most of them get baptized into the LDS Church when they are eight years old, receive the priesthood at 12, advance until they are married and endowed in the Temple. Even the ones who are born into the FLDS or Allred group (United Brethren) trace their Priesthood authority back to the Mormon Church, and the earlier Mormon Prophets. They too want to be known, and indeed ARE known as Mormon fundamentalists.
What do you think Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is other than Fundamentalist Mormons, since the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are known as Mormon.
I can totally SEE that happening in just about any mormon community.
”I did not accuse you of lying by commission, but by omission, fine, I'll back it up in this post if that is what you want.”
In regards to the "different Christ" comment. I thought it was pretty clear to many others what the assertion was referring to, sorry I didn’t make it abundantly clear to you or the other mormons who have engaged in comments regarding the topic previously. If you’re wanting to pick at nits, who am I to tell you not to?
”I went and read your post linked in your response, so... Every natural disaster, is God's fault?”
Now, I could claim you’re doing the same thing you accused me of, but instead, I’ll clarify it for you. Saundra runs around claiming the Christ of the “anti’s” is a “mean, petty, etc.” Christ. Yet, when I offer the comparisons from the BoM and the Bible, crickets. Those are not “natural disasters”. Those are the acts of a vengeful BoM christ offered up as a comparison to the Biblical Christ.
”Warning, opinion!
I think you seek to judge God, I…”
I think you “think” too much. You’ve already said you’re not willing to read my witness, so what you “think” has no weight. Like I said before, rule No. 1 in communication, know your audience. A rule you have yet to indicate you are following.
”SZonian, may God heal your heart and bless your life.”
My heart has been healed. Through the Grace of Christ. For years I tried to follow the mormon path that only led to frustration and failure. My heart doesn’t need healing, it’s been healed and my family is beginning to bear fruit from my leaving mormonISM. So God is "blessing my life" through my act of leaving mormonISM.
”He's telling people what I am thinking... A clear violation”
In response to your appeal to the mod, I made several observations about your posts with other mormons and their comments to you as well before making my comment. The common theme between you was that we would be “less than honest”, attributing motive to us before your little game had even begun. Sorry if you have thin skin, and look for a variety of ways to squash debate.
To address some of your other comments;
”I note from your page that you have been serving in the military, in spite of your attacks here…”
My military service has absolutely nothing to do with this. Have I been forced to adhere to some standard of yours or others because of my service? Have I given up my rights to tell others what I know of mormonISM because of my service?
”I don't know what happened on Aug 30 2010... and I really don't care.”
You should care. Since you are calling on many of the same people to support your “offer”, who slandered and accused other FReepers on that and subsequent days, it has much to do with their credibility (or should I say the lack thereof).
”Isn't there enough information for you to use to attack the church with out making things up and exaggerating?”
Easy accusation to make, yet not prove. There have been others before you trying to claim the same thing. I post my personal experiences, observations, etc. Those are what you and others appear to have the biggest problem with. They are not up for interpretation. You may attempt to question my credibility, which many have, yet I speak the truth.
Hope you have fine day,
SZ
For the "inmans" "ex-mo's" and "anti's", thanks for covering my back while I was out, it's appreciated.
We are clearly told to follow their teachings and the scriptures teaching.....and the Leaderships of the Christian Community have determined Mormonism does not follow Christian doctrine. You are free to deny their findings but that does not change the truth of the matter. Mormonism is not compatible with Christian teachings and doctrines.
Interesting Colofornian - this was totally refuted in post 839 with silence from DU
Old and now shown to be flawed translation regurgitated to keep the faithful in line. Poor scholarship dressed up as the latest and greatest.
I just wish you'd treat us the same way we treat you.
That was never the point now was it DU. Mormonism is not Christian and to say otherwise will continue to be refuted since YOUR prophets have pronounced 'from God' that Christianity is apostate. And now mormons want to usurp as the only 'true' Christianity. Recalling the 50K missionaries spreading that same word - didn't think so.
Yes, God will judge you, but if it is on the basis of mormon doctrine of works you will be found lacking.
I find it fascinating that this apologist spends lengthy posts day in and day out attacking the notions in Orthodox Christianity, yet cannot see he is fulfilling what Lewis wrote! And as to the first sentence, well, if he saw that the 'antis' address his cult/his chosen ISM as a means to awaken his soul to flee from the heresies, he would feel less 'put upon' and more alive in Christ, not working daily to assault the beliefs of millions of Christians who have lived in the centuries before he and the false prophet --Joseph Smith-- came along. There is a zeal, but then the suicide murderers of Islam have a zeal, also.
Like any exorcism, the process is difficult, both for the Christian and for the patient.
Did you ever get an answer to your question?
When Delph’s ravings get to me, I just try to remember that the zeal of Saul of Tarsus went much further than Delph, and Jesus was more than able to use him, for ‘all things work together for good ... to them who are the called according to His purpose.’
You have always received a positive response when praying about the Bible. God seems to be involved in your daily life answering questions almost like Tevye in Fiddler on the roof, but with actual answers from God.</Hypothetical world>
Then you run into a group of people who call you a devil worshiper and damn you to hell by saying you read scriptures that are wrong. They out number you and those in your religion a thousand to one. They have a book, they read, which you think is a good book, it has a lot of God's word in it, it is another testament of Jesus Christ, you've known of this book, and it's true, but you got a testimony of your Bible, not just once, but every-time you read it, the spirit whispers to you and it's like a warm blanket of comfort knowing God loves you.
Then a member of this group says he has read your Bible and prayed about it and God said it was a lie.
How do you react to this "person" who is denying your revelation from God that he exists and loves you? How do you react? What would you say to this person publicly declaring the Bible to be a complete fiction and a tool of the Devil, and he knows because God told him so?
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