Posted on 09/03/2010 5:27:36 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
Glenn Beck has been in the news lately and, not surprisingly, so has his religion. Some have warned Christians to be wary of Beck, not because of his political views but because of his religious affiliation. He is, they say, not a real Christian.
I'm betting, though, that he is. I don't know Mr. Beck personally, but he belongs to the same church I do, and I'm a pretty mainstream member. I'll wager that his beliefs resemble mine.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the creator of heaven and earth. I also believe in Jesus Christ, his only-begotten Son, the Lord of all humankind, who, before being born to the Virgin Mary, was the Jehovah of the Old Testament. I believe that Jesus Christ suffered under Pontius Pilate, that he was crucified, died and was buried. While his body lay in the tomb, he descended into the realm of the spirits of the dead and preached the gospel there. On the third day, Jesus rose, physically, from death. He ascended into heaven, where he sits at the right hand of the Father. He will return, however, in power and great glory, to judge the living and the dead. In the meantime, we can receive guidance from the Holy Spirit, the third member of the Trinity.
I believe that Christ founded a church in order to teach his doctrine and administer the ordinances of salvation to all humanity and that the fellowship of the Saints, Christ's disciples, transcends not only all ethnic, cultural and national divisions but even death itself. I believe in the forgiveness of sins and the resurrection of the body, which are made possible only through the gracious Atonement of Jesus Christ, in whom we have our only hope of salvation. And, finally, I believe in everlasting life.
Some will have recognized that the structure and phrasing of the two paragraphs above were modeled, quite consciously, on the ancient "Apostles' Creed" — a text dating to roughly the late fifth century. In the modern translation favored by the Church of England, the Apostles' Creed reads as follows:
"I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended into hell. On the third day he rose again; he ascended into heaven, he is seated at the right hand of the Father, and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
"I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen."
Now, obviously, I've changed the language a bit. Mostly, I wanted to use more familiar or more typically Mormon terms. For instance, the word "catholic" is rarely used, nowadays, in its original sense of "universal" — it should be obvious that Henry VIII's church isn't announcing its surrender to the pope when it recites the Apostles' Creed — but Latter-day Saints do most definitely believe that the church established by Jesus has a universal mission.
More significantly, where the original Apostles' Creed says that Christ was "conceived by the Holy Spirit" ("conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto"), Latter-day Saints will want to insist that Jesus is the divine Son of God the Father. The scriptures are completely silent as to the mechanism of Christ's conception, and they do say that the Holy Spirit came upon Mary (Luke 1:35), but they also plainly declare that Jesus was and is "the Son of the Highest" (Luke 1:32). And emphasis on the fact that Jesus is the Son of God the Father scarcely seems a plausible basis for claiming that Latter-day Saints aren't Christians.
Believing what we do, because we agree so closely with the traditional Apostles' Creed, either Glenn Beck and I (and, for that matter, Mitt Romney and Harry Reid) are Christians, or those who formulated the creed and all those who have affirmed it during the centuries since then haven't been, either.
Yet that is in essence what you did DU.
That would kind of go against my whole theme, don't you think? I would ask if you put those answers to the test I linked to in the Bible, but that is all.
That was put to the test before you were probably born DU, you are not God, nor can you read minds. Oh and yes my copy of the bom had all those instructions too.
Many discussions ago, weren't you one of the ones arguing that Satan had answered my prayer to God? If you believe that is possible, what precautions did you take, if I may ask to make sure it was God?
Not only did I show through the Bible (not 'argue') but I also pointed out to your own church history even acknowledged that. I relied upon the Bible and the scriptures therein DU, it was good enough for Jesus it is good enough for me. What precautions did you take and how sure they were valid.
Thanks GF, this is the heart of the matter. We did the 'test', and we receive a NO for an answer. There is no way you can prove that our experiences were any less inspired than your story. I passed mine some 40 years ago DU. If you are going to be honest to your test, you have to be honest in recognizing our answers to the negative are equally inspired of God as yours on its merits and standards.
They actually match up more perfectly than anything in the Bible and outside archaeological discoveries. The Lachish Letters are nigh unto perfect for archaeological proof that Joseph Smith was *not* kidding when he said the BofM was real history.Just information to keep you from looking foolish when your musings get answered with facts.
It is necessary in order to save face, for some to attempt to neutralize a contrary testimony in this manner. Bill Clinton was a master of this as is 0bama today. We did the test and the test came up opposite of the results DU came up with.
Contrary results invalidate the mormon claim on this test.
Please do not presume to tell me what I know or do not know. You have not lived my life, had my experiences, know my relationship with God. You will never be privy to the sacred spiritual experiences I have had; the miracles I have witnessed. As I said before, you may opine as you wish. I know what I know. Period.
Normonday...it is wise to continue on with the context of that scripture reference..
In 1 John 4:6 where Christians John encourages that we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood by listening to the word of God. All must be tested by this as follows....
“We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.”
This is why the Christian Community can never accept Mormons as Christian....Mormonism opposes the clear teachings of the apostles and Christ as recorded in Gods Word. We identify that Mormonism doesn’t abide by the scripture nor that which Christ and His apostles taught...that is how we know Mormonism comes from a spirit of falsehood.
“had my experiences”....”spiritual experiences”
Reaganaut,
Much is sstated about their “experiences”...twice no less...also the “miracles” (happenings), Which again evidences ones faith in a false religion oftentimes is dependant on their experiences and happenings. Which we know the enemy of mens souls uses to keep people in darkness....and which Jesus mentions the lack of faith in those who hold to these ....”Blessed is He who believes without seeing.”
Many in the occults have spiritual experiences where they believe they are experiencing things from the spiritual world...oftentimes believing these are from God. But they have been deceived greatly. Most will not share those experiences unless with those who likewise have had the same or similar. When this happens they re-enforce these experiences.
As I said, you are entitled to your opinions. Have a lovely evening, I know I will.
The Bible teaches that Jesus was not only worshipped but also called God by Thomas in Jn.20:28..... “My Lord my God”.(Gr. The Lord of me the God of me)...... Instead of being rebuked for this statement which would be blasphemy if false, he is commended and blessed, something no true prophet would do unless it was correct.
We find the wise men worshipped Jesus as a child. Mt.2:11.....The leper worshipped Jesus Mt.8....... The ruler bowed and worshipped Mt.9:18..... .The believer who was blind worshipped him Jn.9:38...... The women worshipped him Mt. 15:25,...... Mary Magdalene worshipped him Mt.28:9, the disciples worshipped him Mt.28:17.......
.... This word for worship in Greek is ‘proskeneo’ the same word used for worship for Jehovah God and for worship of false Gods. It is rendered 16 times to Jesus as a beneficent superior;.... at least 24 times to God or to Jesus as God. “The root idea of bodily prostration is much less prominent than in the Old Testament. It is always translated “worship.” (International Standard Bible Encylopaedia)
Mt. 4:10 “When Jesus said to Satan `You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ He certainly wasn’t telling him to do reverence only. One has to be consistent in the usage of the word, you can’t pick and choose when to or not to apply it.
Jesus is either a false God receiving undue worship or that all the creatures in heaven are not worshipping Jesus. Which means, they are also not worshipping Jehovah God, because the same word is applied to both.
These are not my opinions but from those who have been involved in occults and have come out of them. They should ‘know’ how they were deceived, especially since they now “know” the truth.... and that what they once believed was a counterfeit.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,OHhh KAAaay
21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Thanks!
It's good to see you and good to be back!
Delph
John 10:30-33 when Jesus said “I and My Father are one” (In Greek We are one). Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, ‘make Yourself God.”
“You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”.... The Pharisees did not acknowledge what He was saying about himself but they did understand whom Jesus claimed to be,... they rejected it.
This is not the first time they picked up stones (Jn.10). Previously in John 8:58-59 when Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Then they took up stones to throw at Him.”
No wonder He later said to them, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to them” (Matt 23:37).
Those who do not believe who He said He is, continue to pick up stones today though (not physically) because they cannot accept that Jesus said He was God in their own language and genre. They understood what He was claiming back then; today they ignore the Bible and do not understand His words.
Surely the same people who deny His deity when faced with His claims will try to kill him and His representatives. In the end they will be part of those armies who will fight this one who is coming back, the only God revealed in human flesh at the Battle of Meggido, (known as Armageddon). Jesus said- you are either for me or against me. Today you have that choice.
(From Let Us Reason)
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.The Bible says we lived before we were born as spirits, we were the Sons and Daughters of God. God's people will know this stuff, Mormons do, "Orthodox Christianity" has lost that knowledge, even though it's in the Bible.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the fright hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.Houston, you have a problem... With the Trinity.
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