Ok... the two of you are going to share either in the credit or the blame for what follows. It is because of your comments that I decided to pay a bit more attention to the writing of St. Louis de Montfort, and I found out that he wrote about me...
First principle: Christ must be the ultimate end of all devotions
Jesus, our Saviour, true God and true man must be the ultimate end of all our other devotions; otherwise they would be false and misleading. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and end of everything. "We labour," says St. Paul, "only to make all men perfect in Jesus Christ."
For in him alone dwells the entire fullness of the divinity and the complete fullness of grace, virtue and perfection. In him alone we have been blessed with every spiritual blessing; he is the only teacher from whom we must learn; the only Lord on whom we should depend; the only Head to whom we should be united and the only model that we should imitate. He is the only Physician that can heal us; the only Shepherd that can feed us; the only Way that can lead us; the only Truth that we can believe; the only Life that can animate us. He alone is everything to us and he alone can satisfy all our desires.
We are given no other name under heaven by which we can be saved. God has laid no other foundation for our salvation, perfection and glory than Jesus. Every edifice which is not built on that firm rock, is founded upon shifting sands and will certainly fall sooner or later. Every one of the faithful who is not united to him is like a branch broken from the stem of the vine. It falls and withers and is fit only to be burnt. If we live in Jesus and Jesus lives in us, we need not fear damnation. Neither angels in heaven nor men on earth, nor devils in hell, no creature whatever can harm us, for no creature can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. Through him, with him and in him, we can do all things and render all honour and glory to the Father in the unity of the Holy Spirit; we can make ourselves perfect and be for our neighbour a fragrance of eternal life.
If then we are establishing sound devotion to our Blessed Lady, it is only in order to establish devotion to our Lord more perfectly, by providing a smooth but certain way of reaching Jesus Christ. If devotion to our Lady distracted us from our Lord, we would have to reject it as an illusion of the devil. But this is far from being the case. As I have already shown and will show again later on, this devotion is necessary, simply and solely because it is a way of reaching Jesus perfectly, loving him tenderly, and serving him faithfully.
Here I turn to you for a moment, dear Jesus, to complain lovingly to your divine Majesty that the majority of Christians, and even some of the most learned among them, do not recognise the necessary bond that unites you and your Blessed Mother. Lord, you are always with Mary and Mary is always with you. She can never be without you because then she would cease to be what she is. She is so completely transformed into you by grace that she no longer lives, she no longer exists, because you alone, dear Jesus, live and reign in her more perfectly than in all the angels and saints. If we only knew the glory and the love given to you by this wonderful creature, our feelings for you and for her would be far different from those we have now. So intimately is she united to you that it would be easier to separate light from the sun, and heat from the fire. I go further, it would even be easier to separate all the angels and saints from you than Mary; for she loves you ardently, and glorifies you more perfectly than all your other creatures put together.
In view of this, my dear Master, is it not astonishing and pitiful to see the ignorance and short-sightedness of men with regard to your holy Mother? I am not speaking so much of idolaters and pagans who do not know you and consequently have no knowledge of her. I am not even speaking of heretics and schismatics who have left you and your holy Church and therefore are not interested in your holy Mother. I am speaking of Catholics, and even of educated Catholics, who profess to teach the faith to others but do not know you or your Mother except speculatively, in a dry, cold and sterile way.
These people seldom speak of your Mother or devotion to her. They say they are afraid that devotion to her will be abused and that you will be offended by excessive honour paid to her. They protest loudly when they see or hear a devout servant of Mary speak frequently with feeling, conviction and vigour of devotion to her. When he speaks of devotion to her as a sure means of finding and loving you without fear or illusion, or when he says this devotion is a short road free from danger, or an immaculate way free from imperfection, or a wondrous secret of finding you, they put before him a thousand specious reasons to show him how wrong he is to speak so much of Mary. There are, they say, great abuses in this devotion which we should try to stamp out and we should refer people to you rather than exhort them to have devotion to your Mother, whom they already love adequately.
If they are sometimes heard speaking of devotion to your Mother, it is not for the purpose of promoting it or convincing people of it but only to destroy the abuses made of it. Yet all the while these persons are devoid of piety or genuine devotion to you, for they have no devotion to Mary. They consider the Rosary and the Scapular as devotions suitable only for simple women or ignorant people. After all, they say, we do not need them to be saved. If they come across one who loves our Lady, who says the rosary or shows any devotion towards her, they soon move him to a change of mind and heart. They advise him to say the seven penitential psalms instead of the Rosary, and to show devotion to Jesus instead of to Mary.
Dear Jesus, do these people possess your spirit? Do they please you by acting in this way? Would it please you if we were to make no effort to give pleasure to your Mother because we are afraid of offending you? Does devotion to your holy Mother hinder devotion to you? Does Mary keep for herself any honour we pay her? Is she a rival of yours? Is she a stranger having no kinship with you? Does pleasing her imply displeasing you? Does the gift of oneself to her constitute a deprivation for you? Is love for her a lessening of our love for you?
Nevertheless, my dear Master, the majority of learned scholars could not be further from devotion to your Mother, or show more indifference to it even if all I have just said were true. Keep me from their way of thinking and acting and let me share your feelings of gratitude, esteem, respect and love for your holy Mother. I can then love and glorify you all the more, because I will be imitating and following you more closely.
As though I had said nothing so far to further her honour, grant me now the grace to praise her more worthily, in spite of all her enemies who are also yours. I can then say to them boldly with the saints, "Let no one presume to expect mercy from God, who offends his holy Mother."
So that I may obtain from your mercy a genuine devotion to your blessed Mother and spread it throughout the whole world, help me to love you wholeheartedly, and for this intention accept the earnest prayer I offer with St. Augustine and all who truly love you.
Prayer of Saint Augustine
O Jesus Christ, you are my Father, my merciful God, my great King, my good Shepherd, my only Master, my best helper, my beloved friend of overwhelming beauty, my living Bread, my eternal priest. You are my guide to my heavenly home, my one true light, my holy joy, my true way, my shining wisdom, my unfeigned simplicity, the peace and harmony of my soul, my perfect safeguard, my bounteous inheritance, my everlasting salvation.
My loving Lord, Jesus Christ, why have I ever loved or desired anything else in my life but you, my God? Where was I when I was not in communion with you? From now on, I direct all my desires to be inspired by you and centred on you. I direct them to press forward for they have tarried long enough, to hasten towards their goal, to seek the one they yearn for.
O Jesus, let him who does not love you be accursed, and filled with bitterness. O gentle Jesus, let every worthy feeling of mine show you love, take delight in you and admire you. O God of my heart and my inheritance, Christ Jesus, may my heart mellow before the influence of your spirit and may you live in me. May the flame of your love burn in my soul. May it burn incessantly on the altar of my heart. May it glow in my innermost being. May it spread its heat into the hidden recesses of my soul and on the day of my consummation may I appear before you consumed in your love. Amen.
That's not as long as it looks, go back and read it if you just scrolled through it. There are some remarkable things there with which no Protestant would disagree. There are obviously some things that would make a Protestant brain melt.
Also, that is not the "standard disclaimer". That is something different, something massively different than the way Marian piety is portrayed by non-Catholics. Really it's something different than I understood it, I begin to understand why that book influenced JPII so strongly.
I pray the Rosary because that is what Catholics do. I have statues and sacramentals because that is what Catholics do. I condescendingly tolerate Marian piety because that is what well-educated, devout, "spiritually mature" Catholics do... and while scrolling through an online version of the True Devotion book I saw myself:
Critical devotees are for the most part proud scholars, people of independent and self-satisfied minds, who deep down in their hearts have a vague sort of devotion to Mary. However, they criticise nearly all those forms of devotion to her which simple and pious people use to honour their good Mother just because such practices do not appeal to them. They question all miracles and stories which testify to the mercy and power of the Blessed Virgin, even those recorded by trustworthy authors or taken from the chronicles of religious orders. They cannot bear to see simple and humble people on their knees before an altar or statue of our Lady, or at prayer before some outdoor shrine. They even accuse them of idolatry as if they were adoring the wood or the stone. They say that as far as they are concerned they do not care for such outward display of devotion and that they are not so gullible as to believe all the fairy tales and stories told of our Blessed Lady. When you tell them how admirably the Fathers of the Church praised our Lady, they reply that the Fathers were exaggerating as orators do, or that their words are misrepresented. These false devotees, these proud worldly people are greatly to be feared. They do untold harm to devotion to our Lady. While pretending to correct abuses, they succeed only too well in turning people away from this devotion.
Scrupulous devotees are those who imagine they are slighting the Son by honouring the Mother. They fear that by exalting Mary they are belittling Jesus. They cannot bear to see people giving to our Lady the praises due to her and which the Fathers of the Church have lavished upon her. It annoys them to see more people kneeling before Mary's altar than before the Blessed Sacrament, as if these acts were at variance with each other, or as if those who were praying to our Lady were not praying through her to Jesus. They do not want us to speak too often of her or to pray so often to her.
Here are some of the things they say: "What is the good of all these rosaries, confraternities and exterior devotions to our Lady? There is a great deal of ignorance in all this. It is making a mockery of religion. Tell us about those who are devoted to Jesus (and they often pronounce his name without uncovering their heads). We should go directly to Jesus, since he is our sole Mediator. We must preach Jesus; that is sound devotion." There is some truth in what they say, but the inference they draw to prevent devotion to our Lady is very insidious. It is a subtle snare of the evil one under the pretext of promoting a greater good. For we never give more honour to Jesus than when we honour his Mother, and we honour her simply and solely to honour him all the more perfectly. We go to her only as a way leading to the goal we seek - Jesus, her Son.
I have never been so totally and correctly convicted in my life. Starting today, I must change. I'll tell you what flipped the switch: Mary is the only creature who has a mother's love for God. (Obviously not the Father or the Holy Ghost, don't go all crazy on me.)
I don't have first hand experience of what maternal love is really like except as the recipient, but I can detect it in my wife. I've understood, intellectually and somewhat emotionally that Jesus has a son's love for His mother and I can kind of grasp that. And that's always been the foundation for my "toleration" of Marian piety. When I (less than an hour ago) realized the fullness of the relationship that must exist when the former is joined to the latter it was quite possibly the closest thing to an epiphany I've ever experienced.
Anyhow, this is far too long already.
THIS is where he goes off the tracks, in your quotes above:
But this is far from being the case. As I have already shown and will show again later on, this devotion is necessary, simply and solely because it is a way of reaching Jesus perfectly, loving him tenderly, and serving him faithfully.
What a slightly interesting fantasy:
Here I turn to you for a moment, dear Jesus, to complain lovingly to your divine Majesty that the majority of Christians, and even some of the most learned among them, do not recognise the necessary bond that unites you and your Blessed Mother. Lord, you are always with Mary and Mary is always with you. She can never be without you because then she would cease to be what she is. She is so completely transformed into you by grace that she no longer lives, she no longer exists, because you alone, dear Jesus, live and reign in her more perfectly than in all the angels and saints. If we only knew the glory and the love given to you by this wonderful creature, our feelings for you and for her would be far different from those we have now. So intimately is she united to you that it would be easier to separate light from the sun, and heat from the fire. I go further, it would even be easier to separate all the angels and saints from you than Mary; for she loves you ardently, and glorifies you more perfectly than all your other creatures put together.
We don’t know whether we will be able to go here or do whatever tomorrow. Yet folks are arrogantly defining and describing Heavenly existentials without a visit? What unmitigated balderdash.
What desperate shoehorning Mary into a status and an office she nor God have anything to do with.
When he left the tracks, he negated all the excellent paragraphs before.
In view of this, my dear Master, is it not astonishing and pitiful to see the ignorance and short-sightedness of men with regard to your holy Mother? I am not speaking so much of idolaters and pagans who do not know you and consequently have no knowledge of her. I am not even speaking of heretics and schismatics who have left you and your holy Church and therefore are not interested in your holy Mother. I am speaking of Catholics, and even of educated Catholics, who profess to teach the faith to others but do not know you or your Mother except speculatively, in a dry, cold and sterile way.
HELLO?
Loving Mamma did her duty. Now she’s teaching aborted babies the ways of God. End of story.
Get your priorities straight.
THAT’S the story.
In view of this, my dear Master, is it not astonishing and pitiful to see the ignorance and short-sightedness of men with regard to your holy Mother? I am not speaking so much of idolaters and pagans who do not know you and consequently have no knowledge of her. I am not even speaking of heretics and schismatics who have left you and your holy Church and therefore are not interested in your holy Mother. I am speaking of Catholics, and even of educated Catholics, who profess to teach the faith to others but do not know you or your Mother except speculatively, in a dry, cold and sterile way.
NO! IT’S NOT ASTONISHING NOR PITIFUL AT ALL. THEY ARE AHEAD OF THE DELUDED IDOLATORS. They have not incurred near as much of Mamma’s disgust.
UNMITIGATED NONSENSE. Christ Himself showed THE WAY PERFECTLY--AND IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS MOTHER--WHO WAS EVEN THEN, ESSENTIALLY HISTORY.
This whole stinking pile of existential fantasy IS AN INSULT TO THE LIFE, TEACHING AND MINISTRY OF CHRIST--BY WHOM ALL THAT WAS CREATED WAS CREATED.
IT ESSENTIALLY DECLARES that HE, GOD, DIDN'T TEACH IT RIGHT. HE DIDN'T GET IT RIGHT. HE DIDN'T FORMALLY INSTALL MUMMY IN HER PROPER PLACE.
THEREFORE, THIS CABAL OF BUREAUCRATIC POLITICAL MAGICSTERICAL POWERMONGERS 300-400 years LATER HAVE TO CLEAN UP CHRIST'S ACT AND DO IT RIGHT TO RESCUE THE SYSTEM!
TO RESCUE THE WHOLE STINKING FAR TOO OVERLY HUMAN SYSTEM AND THEIR OWN POWER-MONGERING, INDEED!
WHAT AN INSULT TO THE NAME, LIFE, ROLE, & OFFICE OF JESUS THE CHRIST.
CHRIST HIMSELF EMPHASIZED THAT THOSE WHO DID THE WILL OF THE FATHER WERE HIS MOTHER, FATHER, BROTHERS, SISTERS.
RC'S IRRATIONALLY DISMISS THAT VERSE AS WELL AS THE VERSES ABOUT CHRIST'S BLOOD HALF-SIBLINGS. The 'cousin' nonsense is irrational on the face of it from the context. There would, in that culture, be no purpose or reason in mentioning cousins. Such a meaning would negate the whole verse as meaningless and useless. The only fitting rational meaning is as stated in the overwhelming majority of translations--Christ's blood brothers and sisters. Sheesh.
Paul further elaborated on THE WAY--again with no mention of Mary as any part of it.
Montfort is fabricating fantasies . . . and very dangerously so.
THIS PARAGRAPH IS SOOO CLOSE TO THE TRUTH OF THE NEED TO AVOID MARY ALTOGETHER IN FOCUSING ON CHRIST
AND YET SO FAR:
These people seldom speak of your Mother or devotion to her. They say they are afraid that devotion to her will be abused and that you will be offended by excessive honour paid to her. They protest loudly when they see or hear a devout servant of Mary speak frequently with feeling, conviction and vigour of devotion to her. When he speaks of devotion to her as a sure means of finding and loving you without fear or illusion, or when he says this devotion is a short road free from danger, or an immaculate way free from imperfection, or a wondrous secret of finding you, they put before him a thousand specious reasons to show him how wrong he is to speak so much of Mary. There are, they say, great abuses in this devotion which we should try to stamp out and we should refer people to you rather than exhort them to have devotion to your Mother, whom they already love adequately.
[HE GETS IT MORE ACCURATELY AND BIBLICALLY HERE BUT MISSES THE IMPORT AND MEANING HIS BETTERS HAVE SEEN]:
After all, they say, we do not need them to be saved. If they come across one who loves our Lady, who says the rosary or shows any devotion towards her, they soon move him to a change of mind and heart. They advise him to say the seven penitential psalms instead of the Rosary, and to show devotion to Jesus instead of to Mary.
This part is outrageously UNBIBLICAL AND IRRATIONAL:
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Yet all the while these persons are devoid of piety or genuine devotion to you, for they have no devotion to Mary.
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THAT'S LIKE SAYING, I DON'T LOVE YOU BECAUSE I DON'T LOVE YOUR PET RABBIT!
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WHAT UNMITIGATED BALDERDASH. What irrational deception from hell.
YES! Far more than the Maryolators!
Do they please you by acting in this way?
YES! Far more than the Maryolators because they have my priorities for them more correct and properly lived-out.
Would it please you if we were to make no effort to give pleasure to your Mother because we are afraid of offending you?
YES! As my Word declares, I am a jealous God. I made very clear 2000 years ago that those who DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER ARE MY MOTHER, FATHER, BROTHERS, SISTERS. Why didn't you "GET IT?" Why all this cluelessness on that score?
Does devotion to your holy Mother hinder devotion to you?
YES! It DOES! . . . in millions of lives around the planet. And it grieves my Father's heart. It grieves my heart and if I allowed her to dwell on it, it would grieve Mary's heart.
Does Mary keep for herself any honour we pay her?
That's not the point. Putting it on her is misplaced honor in the first place. It is FORBIDDEN. GET IT RIGHT!
Is she a rival of yours?
In the hearts and lives of millions of Roman Catholics around the world, she is--however unwittingly or wittingly.
Of course, in existential reality, there ARE NO RIVALS. Propping Mary up such that she becomes one in the hearts, minds, & lives of so many millions is a horrific sin dangering to destroying the spiritual health and vitality if not the Salvation of millions. Better a millstone were tied around the neck and such teachers cast into the sea than to hazard so many weak and young in the faith with such heretical idolatry and blasphemy.
Is she a stranger having no kinship with you?
Don't be absurd. That straw dog is not the point. GET IT RIGHT! GET YOUR PRIORITIES RIGHT BEFORE ME, BEFORE THE FATHER. As far as Mary--anything else grieves, disgusts and outrages HER.
Does pleasing her imply displeasing you?
Another straw dog. GET IT RIGHT. GET YOUR PRIORITIES RIGHT BEFORE ME, BEFORE THE FATHER. As far as Mary--anything else grieves, disgusts and outrages HER.
Does the gift of oneself to her constitute a deprivation for you?
In a real and crucial sense in the hearts, minds, lives of millions, YES! It IS BLASPHEMY, IDOLATRY, MISPLACED PRIORITIES--GET IT RIGHT. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS ABOVE LOVING GOD *ABOVE* *ALL* ELSE!
GET IT RIGHT. STOP ALL THIS WEASEL WORD RATIONALIZING.
Is love for her a lessening of our love for you?
YES! Why are you so daft about human psychology and spirituality?
PROPER PRIORITIES ARE ESSENTIAL. THE FIRST COMMANDMENT IS CRUCIAL, ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. There ARE NO WEASEL WORDS adequate to get around it. GET IT RIGHT.
NONSENSE.
WHERE IS YOUR FEAR OF THE LORD YOUR GOD?
THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM! NOT! fawning over Mamma. Mamma's first job with me is done. Get over it.
Mamma is NOT an also ran. She was never intended to be. Get it through your head. She's not in the Queen's chair. There is no Queen of Heaven's chair. Deal with it.
WHAT BALDERDASH.
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1. BELEIVERS paying Mamma no mind do NOT offend her in the least. THAT IS HER DELIGHT! She learned the truth of Paul's exhortation about HIM DECREASING THAT I MIGHT INCREASE early. She's properly delighted to be nothing in the lives of those who Love me.
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2. SHE KNOWS WHERE THE PROPER PRIORITIES AND DEVOTIONS LIE. YOU DON'T. YOU'D BEST LEARN, FAST. GET IT RIGHT.
So that I may obtain from your mercy a genuine devotion to your blessed Mother and spread it throughout the whole world, help me to love you wholeheartedly, and for this intention accept the earnest prayer I offer with St. Augustine and all who truly love you.
You should have saved your breath and pen. Augustine blew it.
[CORRECTION]
Augustine blew it wherever and whenever and to whatever degree he ever altered his focus from CHRIST ALONE.
Throwing in Augustine’s prayer in that post after all the heretical blasphemy and idolatry about Mary from Montfort is a milk sop. It doesn’t cut it.
The only response to the Mary idolatry is REPENTANCE—not a nice Christ-centric prayer from Augustine.
Thanks for your post.
I pray the Rosary because that is what Catholics do. I have statues and sacramentals because that is what Catholics do. I condescendingly tolerate Marian piety because that is what well-educated, devout, “spiritually mature” Catholics do...
What a poor excuse for idolatry, blasphemy or anything
REMOTELY CLOSE TO idolatry, blasphemy.
No! They have, by Holy Spirit, gotten their priorities more correct. GET IT RIGHT.
They question all miracles and stories which testify to the mercy and power of the Blessed Virgin, even those recorded by trustworthy authors or taken from the chronicles of religious orders. They cannot bear to see simple and humble people on their knees before an altar or statue of our Lady, or at prayer before some outdoor shrine. They even accuse them of idolatry as if they were adoring the wood or the stone.
DOH! That's because their brains have not been clouded by angels of light and deceiving demons. ABANDON THE IDOLATRY. GET IT RIGHT!
They say that as far as they are concerned they do not care for such outward display of devotion and that they are not so gullible as to believe all the fairy tales and stories told of our Blessed Lady. When you tell them how admirably the Fathers of the Church praised our Lady, they reply that the Fathers were exaggerating as orators do, or that their words are misrepresented.
WELLLL, at least they have some sense about such things. You'd be wise to follow their lead and horse sense about such things vs going off the cliff about Mamma.
These false devotees, these proud worldly people are greatly to be feared. They do untold harm to devotion to our Lady. While pretending to correct abuses, they succeed only too well in turning people away from this devotion.
PRAISE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE FATHER FOR THAT! Mama is delighted when folks are turned away from devotion to her.
ABSOLUTELY INDEED. THEY ARE FAR MORE CORRECT THAN YOU. GET IT RIGHT. TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
There is some truth in what they say, but the inference they draw to prevent devotion to our Lady is very insidious. It is a subtle snare of the evil one under the pretext of promoting a greater good. For we never give more honour to Jesus than when we honour his Mother, and we honour her simply and solely to honour him all the more perfectly. We go to her only as a way leading to the goal we seek - Jesus, her Son.
UNMITIGATED NONSENSE. That's off the track and over the cliff. REPENT. GET IT RIGHT. TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
THIS:
For we never give more honour to Jesus than when we honour his Mother, and we honour her simply and solely to honour him all the more perfectly. We go to her only as a way leading to the goal we seek - Jesus, her Son.
UNMITIGATED IDOLATROUS BLASPHEMY is like saying that I honor you to come to your house for dinner when I go straight to the back yard, climb in the rabbit hutch and chow down on some carrots with your pet rabbit as a way of honoring you.
GET IT RIGHT. CHRIST ALONE. CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED. NOTHING AND NO ONE ELSE. GET IT RIGHT. TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
I don't have first hand experience of what maternal love is really like except as the recipient, but I can detect it in my wife. I've understood, intellectually and somewhat emotionally that Jesus has a son's love for His mother and I can kind of grasp that. And that's always been the foundation for my "toleration" of Marian piety. When I (less than an hour ago) realized the fullness of the relationship that must exist when the former is joined to the latter it was quite possibly the closest thing to an epiphany I've ever experienced.
I hate to challenge folks EXPERIENCES . . . however, I think you need to change your "epiphany" in on a new one. That one was sold by a used car salesman.
Mary has more than Mama's love for Christ BY HIS SPIRIT--AND BECAUSE OF THAT, SHE DEPLORES ANY ADORATION, DEVOTION, VENERATION, PRAISE, ACCOLADES, WORSHIP etc. given to her whatsoever. ZIP, NADA, is what pleases HER.
Mother's love can easily be misplaced, overblown, etc. Even Mary had to have her love for Christ purified by Christ's blood and Holy Spirit.
The carnal, human love . . . even mother's love, is inadequate for the supremely Godly focus. Holy Spirit has to birth within us proper Godly Love. AND THAT LOVE HE BIRTHS WITHIN US FOR GOD HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER DO WITH OR EXPRESS TOWARD MARY.
HOLY SPIRIT, OF COURSE, GETS IT RIGHT. YOU'D BEST GET IT RIGHT, TOO. TIME IS RUNNING OUT.
Thank you for that post!
When I (less than an hour ago) realized the fullness of the relationship that must exist when the former is joined to the latter it was quite possibly the closest thing to an epiphany I've ever experienced.
Same here. Thanks very much.