Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
Do you mean the 11, the 12 or any of the wider range of disciples?
Mother Teresa was a poor unsaved , very nice lady that hopped work would take her to God if there was one..
How do you know that she us unsaved.
Luke 6:20 10 11 And raising his eyes toward his disciples he said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for the kingdom of God is yours. 21 Blessed are you who are now hungry, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who are now weeping, for you will laugh. 22 Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude and insult you, and denounce your name as evil on account of the Son of Man. 23 Rejoice and leap for joy on that day! Behold, your reward will be great in heaven. For their ancestors treated the prophets in the same way.
24 But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. 25 But woe to you who are filled now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will grieve and weep. 26 Woe to you when all speak well of you, for their ancestors treated the false prophets in this way.
27 12 "But to you who hear I say, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 To the person who strikes you on one cheek, offer the other one as well, and from the person who takes your cloak, do not withhold even your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks of you, and from the one who takes what is yours do not demand it back.
31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend money to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit (is) that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, and get back the same amount. 35 But rather, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful.
37 13 "Stop judging and you will not be judged. Stop condemning and you will not be condemned. Forgive and you will be forgiven. 38 Give and gifts will be given to you; a good measure, packed together, shaken down, and overflowing, will be poured into your lap. For the measure with which you measure will in return be measured out to you."
39 And he told them a parable, "Can a blind person guide a blind person? Will not both fall into a pit? 40 No disciple is superior to the teacher; but when fully trained, every disciple will be like his teacher. 41 Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own? 42 How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me remove that splinter in your eye,' when you do not even notice the wooden beam in your own eye? You hypocrite! Remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter in your brother's eye.
Mother Teresa fits the words of Jesus very well. You say that she is unsaved. These words say that as you judge, so are you judged. Mother Teresa gave her very life to the poor and the downtrodden even though she had doubts and felt as if she might have been abandoned. Even Jesus gave a cry of despair:
Matthew 27: 45 27 From noon onward, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. 46 And about three o'clock Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" 28 which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
47 29 Some of the bystanders who heard it said, "This one is calling for Elijah." 48 Immediately one of them ran to get a sponge; he soaked it in wine, and putting it on a reed, gave it to him to drink. 49 But the rest said, "Wait, let us see if Elijah comes to save him."
50 30 But Jesus cried out again in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit.
Is Mother Teresa held to higher standards than Jesus by the Reformed?
Those apostles were tortured and murdered and never had a "dark night of the soul"..Because they Knew that they knew... Poor Mother Teresa had no assurance
The Apostles spent three miracle-filled years with Jesus and still they had doubts...
Dominus Iesus still upholds vatican 1. We don;t deny the Holy Spirit blows where He wills. Thus a person saved is still saved through the Church in a mysterious relationship
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/r
The Church is the “universal sacrament of salvation”,79 since, united always in a mysterious way to the Saviour Jesus Christ, her Head, and subordinated to him, she has, in God’s plan, an indispensable relationship with the salvation of every human being.80 For those who are not formally and visibly members of the Church, “salvation in Christ is accessible by virtue of a grace which, while having a mysterious relationship to the Church, does not make them formally part of the Church, but enlightens them in a way which is accommodated to their spiritual and material situation. This grace comes from Christ; it is the result of his sacrifice and is communicated by the Holy Spirit”;81 it has a relationship with the Church, which “according to the plan of the Father, has her origin in the mission of the Son and the Holy Spirit”.82
There will never be unity between Christians and the heirs of the Gnostics. Your self described elect are the Pharisees of our day. John 10 does not address the ability of men to walk away from God. I gave you the very words of Jesus that do say that. Why do you ignore them? John is explicit.
Do you realize that the gospels are actually Old testament? They record for us that Jesus kept the jewish laws perfectly. They tell us about the miracles God preformed through Him preformed to verify His divinity
You've mentioned this a couple of times, if I recall. What an odd thing to say. No Christians have ever believed that Christ is OT. Will you rearrange the rest of the NT now?
The entire scripture comes from God ...No one was following jesus around with a recorder.. God breathed the memories that were to be reported for our benefit in the scriptures..
I am enquiring where the words of Nahum are as important as the words of Jesus. Where does it say that in Scripture? Who says that the tallies of the Chronicler are as important as the words of the Sermon on the Mount? Are you saying that God dictated the Bible? According to the Torah itself, it contains the only God-dictated books of the Bible. Luke specifically is not; John's Revelation most certainly is not. According to them!!! Jesus thought the OT was inspired.. He quoted all the time.. "it is written"... "Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?"
You can't have it both ways. Either ALL scripture is equal, and scripture says it, or else you as a 'Bible Believer' must reject that statement.
Sounds like it. Some 'Christians' do not believe in the Trinity at all, and others see God the Father as the stern and wrathful Jovian taskmaster continuously angry, and given to random destruction except to an even more random few (except for the random few who haughtily self identify as possessing salvation ahead of time).
The history of post Reformation Protestantism can be very disheartening.
Brought to you all by the Department of Duplication and Redundancy... :)
The crucification was the plan of God
Mat 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
Luk 22:22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
Jhn 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Act 2:23 — Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Neither Jesus or the Father were surprised by the crucification.. it was ordained before the foundation of the earth
Christ (God Incarnate) accepted that for our sake, to make us His sisters, brothers, children of God. He ransomed us from sin and death, His death paid our price.
How did He do that ? Did He pay the entire price or only part of it?
Every sinner is guilty of the death of Christ.
That is true..
At that moment the weight of the sin of all men was laid on Him, and for that time, Christ was separated from the Father by the sin of men He bore
You certainly are not comparing a suffering Christ to a nun that said she loved all religions (and by extension their gods) are you??
In any case the apostles didn't leave diaries.
They left letters and Luke tells the works and acts of the apostles. They left for us the information we need to live a Christian life.. and no one taught mysticism or had a night when they doubted God..
It’s certainly disheartening to me. It continues to devolve, imho.
That is not an answer.. why was it necessary for Jesus to suffer on the cross.. ? Could he have had a heart attack or been hit with a roman carriage and still have died for the sins of men?
What the jews expected was a political savior for Israel. So the fact that they had seen the wrath of God on themselves and on their enemies had nothing to do with Christ..they denied he was God..
So the cross and the suffering were inconsequential , only the resurrection has meaning?
NO! It's all one event to God.You cannot separate them
This answer is at odds with your first answer..
What did the cross accomplish ?
I know she was unsaved when she said she loved all religions and had the Hindus pray to their god when they were dying.. unless God did a mighty act this lady was lost
This is one of the major differences between Protestants and Catholics..
Catholics believe they are saved through the church, protestants believe the church is already the Bride of Christ.. it is a gathering of the saved ..
Yes it was an answer.It was not the one you were fishing for.Besides Mark Bsnr showed you the Catechism on what the Church teaches as well
This answer is at odds with your first answer..
No it's not!God is outside of time and it's all one event that cannot be separated.
What did the cross accomplish
Salvation
Such arrogance. Such pride. Scripture tells us that it is not for you to judge; it is only for God. And God in return will Judge you, me and every person. All such boasting of things that one has no knowledge of either for one's self or for others is boastful and arrogant. And that is evil.
James 4: 1 1 Where do the wars and where do the conflicts among you come from? Is it not from your passions 2 that make war within your members? 2 You covet but do not possess. You kill and envy but you cannot obtain; you fight and wage war. You do not possess because you do not ask. 3 You ask but do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. 4 Adulterers! 3 Do you not know that to be a lover of the world means enmity with God? Therefore, whoever wants to be a lover of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you suppose that the scripture speaks without meaning when it says, "The spirit that he has made to dwell in us tends toward jealousy"? 4 6 But he bestows a greater grace; therefore, it says: "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble." 5
7 So submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you of two minds. 9 Begin to lament, to mourn, to weep. Let your laughter be turned into mourning and your joy into dejection. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you. 11 Do not speak evil of one another, brothers. Whoever speaks evil of a brother or judges his brother speaks evil of the law and judges the law. 6 If you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
12 There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save or to destroy. Who then are you to judge your neighbor?
13 7 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we shall go into such and such a town, spend a year there doing business, and make a profit"-- 14 you have no idea what your life will be like tomorrow. 8 You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears. 15 Instead you should say, "If the Lord wills it, 9 we shall live to do this or that."
16 But now you are boasting in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. 17 So for one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, it is a sin. 10
Every man must ask what it is that He asks us to do. And Mother Teresa did what He asked far better than I would ever even dream of hoping to do...
Who told you about Mother Teresa's salvation? Who told you that she hoped work would take her to God? The arrogance of presuming to know the state of another's soul is breath-taking. How shallow must one be, to claim to know the mind of a saint? If she was simply a very nice lady, she was a better person than any of the OPC women on the forum. And she loved God so much that she ministered to Christ in every one of the least among men, according to Christ's words. If she doubted, she was no less than St. Thomas; a person who never doubts is not necessarily more faithful.
Chalk up another heresy. This is saying there was a time when the Trinity was only two,thus God was changed and moved from 3 to 2 at one time
Council of Nicea
But those who say, ‘There was a time when he [the Son] did not exist,’ and ‘Before he was born, he did not exist,’ and ‘Because he was made from non-existing matter, he is either of another substance or essence,’ and those who call ‘God the Son of God changeable and mutable,’ these the Catholic Church anathematizes" (Appendix to the Creed of Nicaea [A.D. 325]).
[But w]hen we speak of God the Father and God the Son, we do not speak of them as different, nor do we separate each, because the Father cannot exist without the Son, nor can the Son be separated from the Father"
Does the way of the OPC, if you are truly reflecting it in your posts, seem good to you? Perhaps Calvin leads his disciples to the same hell he lived and died in.
You claim knowledge of your own salvation here on FR. That is one fruit of Gnosticism.
and mysticism
Monastics and mystics are a nearly 2000 year tradition of Christianity. The Canon of Scripture and the Creeds would not have been written in anywhere near the time if it wasn't for them. Not to mention the definition of the Trinity.
and dark nights of the soul
The Church Fathers sometimes did.
we do not talk to the dead
Good for you.
We believe God has revealed Himself in the scriptures...
Very good.
He laid out all we need to know about Him and what is needed for salvation and to walk out our faith..
Ah, then you will be jettisoning the works of Calvin and his successors within the day. Jesus did not preach such teachings, and neither did the Apostles or the Church Fathers. Since you guys profess the Nicene Creed, you believe in the Apostolic Church, which includes the Church Fathers.
Very good. Shall we trot out the Athenasian Creed once again. There are some verses in there that are predestined to address some of the Reformed claims...
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the Catholic Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Eternal and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting Salvation, that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.
God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.
Some noteable excerpts:
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord.
So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Co-eternal together, and Co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, must thus think of the Trinity.
Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ.
He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the Catholic Faith, which except a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.
Oh, oh...
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