Intended Catholic Dictatorship

Independent Individualist ^ | 8/27/10 | Reginald Firehammer

[wmfights]

The unmerger of state and religion is a relatively recent phenomenon. It post dates the Reformation also - see Westminster Confession, Calvin's Geneva, etc.

I agree.

I think the other thing that most people don't realize is how much the Reformers brought with them from Rome. If Rome had been capable of reform at Trent they might not have left.

[Mad Dawg]

Did I say it does?

[Quix]

Gag. I’d forgotten about that.

About turned my stomach the first time I read it. My respect for him went South a lot when I first read that.

[Mad Dawg]

This loses me. I agree most ex-Catholics were poorly catechized, but only because most Catholics are poorly catechized.

Focus, focus! My comment does not stand or fall on 98% of Catholics being badly catechized -- which I bet is pretty close. It was a conclusion from a misrepresentation of Catholic thought and practice combined with a claim to authority because the person making the misrepresentations was backing them up not with references but with personal authority based on experience.

I'm beginning to think this is rope-a-dope. If it is, it's not real conversation.

[1000 silverlings]

You know reading thru all the various prayers and homages to the Roman Mary, (and she is the invention of Rome,) she is not the human mother of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels---now I am struck by just how thoroughly the Roman invention has managed to take all away from God the Father.

Our Heavenly Father gave his only begotten son to save mankind from sin. Jesus came to do the will of the Father. All of the prayers and worship due to God the Father is directed by Rome, towards an invention. The more I consider it, the more epic it appears.

[Mad Dawg]

You don't remember posting that it was beneath me to mention the quality of catechesis?

2 dozen issues enough?

Cute. If I'm brief, then people make inferences and natter at me for what I did not say. If I'm exhaustive people natter at me for too many points.

[Quix]

You know reading thru all the various prayers and homages to the Roman Mary, (and she is the invention of Rome,) she is not the human mother of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels-—now I am struck by just how thoroughly the Roman invention has managed to take all away from God the Father.
Our Heavenly Father gave his only begotten son to save mankind from sin. Jesus came to do the will of the Father. All of the prayers and worship due to God the Father is directed by Rome, towards an invention. The more I consider it, the more epic it appears.

---

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

That’s why I’ve long spoken of her as a caricature.

[wagglebee]

The Roman Catholic church only considers a person to have "formally left" the Roman Catholic church when that person writes a letter to his bishop advising Rome of that fact.

I've asked dozens of ex-Roman Catholics and many other ex-RCs on Free Republic if they've done that and they just laughed.

So, you think the word of "dozens" of people who claim to have been Catholic on the internet is sufficient data to draw statistical conclusions? I have serious doubts about the claims of nearly all of the self-professed former Catholics on Free Republic.

And we can't forget we have the testimony of Roman Catholics like Salvation who have repeatedly told us that "once baptized a (Roman) Catholic, always a (Roman) Catholic."

Please give a link to a post of Salvation's, I would like to see the context.

DR. E: So not only have you broken the rules by falsely saying I believe myself to be "omniscient," but you now imply I think I know your heart.

WAGGLEBEE: Actually, I've said nothing of the sort

To which you responded:
Do RCs think we forget some of these personally slanderous posts by RCs which repeatedly break the FR RF rules? I realize RCs don't trust the written word, but thankfully, it remains to reveal the errors of RC apologists.

What's most illustrative here is the manner in which you only posted a PORTION OF A SENTENCE, here is what I actually said:

Actually, I've said nothing of the sort, I pointed out a general understanding, I'm not responsible for any inferences you may draw from it.

Once the rest of the sentence is posted, your attempt to accuse me of breaking rules is meanless.

As an aside, and I've pointed this out before, if you are going to use legal terms such as slander you should really spend some time to learn what they mean. Incorrectly using terms tends to make people look foolish.

Thank you for the fine illustration of the veracity of those who follow another gospel taught by "another Christ."

If I thought for a moment that you were actually interested in what the term "alter Christus" meant, I would address it. Suffice it to say that Saint Paul clearly understood what ordination really involved and the YOPIOS crowd never will:

And to whom you have pardoned any thing, I also. For, what I have pardoned, if I have pardoned any thing, for your sakes have I done it in the person of Christ. (2 Corinthians 2:10)

[Quix]

I have no doubt you are being honest about what you said and didn’t say about RC’s being taught.

I certainly did not keep those details in my active memory.

---

HEY, IF DR E AND I GET SHREDDED FROM ALL ANGLES AND DIMENSIONS FOR EVERY IMAGINABLE REASON . . .

Who are you to miss out!

[Quix]

oooops DR E PING

I have no doubt you are being honest about what you said and didn’t say about RC’s being taught.

I certainly did not keep those details in my active memory.

---

HEY, IF DR E AND I GET SHREDDED FROM ALL ANGLES AND DIMENSIONS FOR EVERY IMAGINABLE REASON . . .

Who are you to miss out!

[Mad Dawg]

You contend that Mary is a distraction. I adduce the non-Marian writings of J2P2 as examples of how his profound Christological and Christo-centric thought does not seem to have been trashed by his Marian devotion. Have you read Veritatis Splendor, Fides et Ratio, or Christifidelis Laici? It is hard to imagine such excellence (especially that of the first two) could come from someone distracted by idolatry.

[1000 silverlings]

here's a picture of Rome's trinity from a church in Italy,(called the Trinity of Parma) notice Mary on the right hand of God, no Holy Spirit in sight

[metmom]

The Roman Catholic church only considers a person to have "formally left" the Roman Catholic church when that person writes a letter to his bishop advising Rome of that fact.

I've asked dozens of ex-Roman Catholics and many other ex-RCs on Free Republic if they've done that and they just laughed.

Apparently, when they find a church that follows the Scriptures they shake the dust of Rome from their feet and they don't look back.

And count me in on that crowd. Never wrote a letter and don't intend to. It's none of their business and I don't have the time.

[Legatus]

Who do you think the dove is, Daffy Duck?

[OLD REGGIE]

Unitarians broke away from the Congregational church (New England Puritans) -- or the Trinitarian Congregationalists broke away from the Unitarian Congregationalist, I guess, depending on how you look at it! I was surprised to see googling that many Unitarian churches keep the term Congregational in their name.

Long before there were Congregationalists there were Unitarians.

Unitarianism has a long history.

[metmom]

mm: It gets back to the mentality that if you knew what we REALLY believed, of course you'd believe as we do (or still believe as we do).

md: I really missed it if anybody said that. Can you name somebody who said it?

I didn't say anybody said that. I said it was the mentality.

Messages get across without words.

[1000 silverlings]

So there’s 4 in the “Trinity”?

[Cronos]

"I'm not as well versed on Unitarians as I would like and it never occurred to me to question Old REGGIE'S sincerity" --> And you treat Unitarians as Sola scriptura Protestant Chrisitan brethern, even though The UUA rejects the idea that God is Triune in Being. They reject the idea that God is One in Three Persons, Father, Son, and Spirit.

The Unitarian Universalist believes that Jesus was only a man, born just like all other men. The Unitarian Universalist website states (uua.org):

"Classically, Unitarian Universalist Christians have understood Jesus as a savior because he was a God-filled human being, not a supernatural being. He was, and still is for many UUs, an exemplar, one who has shown the way of redemptive love, in whose spirit anyone may live generously and abundantly. Among us, Jesus' very human life and teaching have been understood as products of, and in line with, the great Jewish tradition of prophets and teachers. He neither broke with that tradition nor superseded it."

If your group wants to keep considering Unitarians as having the same Christian beliefs as your group, then perhaps your group doesn't have Christian beliefs at all, just like the Unitarians

[Cronos]

Baptists are Evangelical, but were never involved in breaking away from your church so we wouldn't fit in that category either.

That's because Baptists broke away from Anabaptists and Puritans who broke away from Calvinists. Baptists are the 4th generation of PRotestants.

in 1606, John Smyth, a Fellow of Christ’s College, Cambridge, had broken his ties with the Church of England. Reared in the Church of England, he became "Puritan, English Separatist, and then a Baptist Separatist," and ended his days working with the Mennonites.

you guys are a sub-sub-sect of Protestants.

[metmom]

Is Scripture not the infallible Word of God?

Didn’t Jesus Himself say *It is written...* as a point of authority Himself?

Didn’t He also say that Scripture testifies concerning Him?

Didn’t He, when challenging the traditions that the Pharisees had set up, point back to Scripture?

I’m sure you know the answer to those questions.

I find it interesting that a church which teaches the Trinity although the term is never used in Scripture, has trouble with the concept of Sola Scriptura simply because Scripture never uses the term.