Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
6. I believe that they are part and parcel of the Biblical END TIMES GREAT DECEPTION BECAUSE they will be extremely persuasive about “creating man,” bioengineering all the religious greats of history—FOR SOCIAL ENGINEERING PURPOSES—including Jesus—performing miracles through their technologies—and purportedly having very convincing 3D holographic “histories” “proving” such.
An excommunication is only a formal acknowledgment of an individual's choice. There does not need to be a formal acknowledgment for one to not be in Communion with the Saints.
***Guy Malone’s excellent panels of top flight experts build a great case for saying . . .
1. demons were fallen angels who lost their bodies in Noah’s flood.
2. Fallen angels who fell with satan but did not lose their bodies are pretending to be citizens of distant planets as ET’s.***
WHERE IS THAT IN THE BIBLE?? NOWHERE!!
So then, come on, iscool — do YOU also now believe like some of the non-Catholic here “that Jesus was bioengineered by UFOs”?
Then you should hang out with a better class of men, lest you become like them.
It was my husband who led me back to my faith and to the reformed perspective of Christianity, as is his Godly responsibility. I thank God for him every day.
In your post you assume the OPC keeps membership records but you deny that Rome does. lol. Rome cannot count correctly. We've been told on these many threads by Roman Catholics that "once a RC, always a RC." Rome does not remove the names of baptized members from its membership rolls.
If it did, that "1.2 billion" would deflate fast.
lol.
Satan has won his war of attrition against the one true Gospel in the OPC (113).and
The OPC long ago ceased to proclaim the one true Gospel to the exclusion of all false gospels (115).and
The Orthodox Presbyterian Church has abandoned the marks of a true church of Jesus Christ (118).
Are you calling me a liar?
Someone disagrees with something about justification. Great. WHAT ABOUT JUSTIFICATION? What's the argument?
Have you not read the book you're pushing as an example of discord? How can you expect us to know what you're even talking about if you seem not to know what you're talking about?
“In an open forum, it leads to multiple opinions shouting at each other.”
I've belonged to well-moderated religious fora that didn't descend into open sewers.
sitetest
Rome says its membership is 1.2 billion. That is a lie. Anyone who believes that statement is deluded or complicit.
Perhaps we Catholics, since we don’t believe in a UFO/ET multiverse plot to enslave all of humanity and bioengineered Jesus/Buddha/etc (lumping them all together as if they were multiple versions of the same entity) aren’t on the same page as the multiplicitous Protestants. From that perspective, including the non Christian “Christians”, we Catholics are indeed wrong.
In 2005 three congregations withdrew from the OPC to join the Presbyterian Church in America, one of which was a rather large congregation, resulting in a net loss of members for the OPC in 2005. The membership of the OPC has remained at about 28,000 for more than two years, which is a cause of concern.is going to bust up again if you read the Former Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC) ruling elder Paul M. Elliott saying it is time for you to “come out from among them, and be separate” (2 Corinthians 6:17) (118, 119).
The Bishop would be pretty lonely if he excommunicated all heretical "Catholics" wouldn't he?
Since Vatican II, the number of apostate Catholics has risen, sure.
it’s like what happened post Luther when you had Calvinism, Radical Reformers, Anabaptists and Unitarians all popping up immediately, then now you have Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Scientists etc all claiming sola scriptura.
Unitarians DO NOT believe in Sola Scriptura, They believe in almost anything and everything.
Jehovah's Witnesses DO NOT believe in Sola Scriptura. They have more in common with ROME, because they believe ONLY their organization can "interpret" scripture properly.
Christian Scientists DO NOT beleive in Sola Scriptura. They have more in common with ROME, because they believe ONLY their organization (Mary Baker Eddy's revelation)can "interpret" scripture properly.
Please, try to be more accurate before lumping non-christian sects with protestants.
I'd be delighted that someone was engaging me heart to heart, mind to mind.
Evidently people REALLY discount it and dismiss it when I note that I have had more than 3,000 hours of intense group process experience--most of that as leader/facilitator. I love that stuff. That's my element. That's the nature, type and intensity of dialogue THAT I MOST ENJOY, LIKE, LOVE, AM DRAWN TO. Sieving that out of me is impossible at this point.
FOR ME, virtually every aspect of communication is merely a tool. Yet, in a sense, I realize I AM THE MESSAGE, too. So it's plenty complex. Yet it's simple.
I AM basically a warm fuzzy teddy bear of a lover of hearts, lives, spirits--people. Loving my enemies is not difficult--though I construe few as my enemies.
Even as a prof I will jump through lots of acting out demonstration hoops to get a student or the class to have an insight. They love it. Before long, they all GET IT.
On this medium, it's not so easy. Yet, that requires us to rely more on Holy Spirit to pull it off in each heart and mind. He IS up to the task whether we see it, or not.
I really don't know about individuals except that their mileage almost certainly WILL vary. But I think a lot would just think, "Well, [naughty word] you," and go about their business.
I know. And that's not my preference but it's acceptable.
Most of my life and certainly of my professional career, the directors of all the counseling centers I've worked at always gave me the most impossible cases. Such a gift! These were often cases where mental hospitals had failed with these people.
These people were artists at crashing and burning therapists. Some succeeded in sabotaging the process with me, too. However, a surprising percentage did not and virtually all got some and the vast majority very significantly better.
Somehow, even in my early inexperienced very clumsy days, the depth of God's caring through me and the idiosyncracies about me were mightily used to help pry, shock, nudge, shove folks toward health.
I have learned over the years that my writing and the stylistic oddities about it are also used of the Lord similarly.
CERTAINLY I'm NOT one size fits all as I've repeatedly emphasized.
THERE'S LOTS OF CONVENTIONAL WRITING FROM CONVENTIONAL PEOPLE FOR CONVENTIONAL AUDIENCES. And I can have a lot to say to the discerning amongst the conventional, too, by God's Grace. But that's not my unique & special brief, by far. That's y'all's turf.
AND, you may think it's the content of what you say the runs people off or makes them want to run you off. The reason I rarely 'engage' with you is that I feel like have to endure a lot of insults to find something that can be discussed reasonable in what you say. I am unable to stay on topic with all this emotional shrapnel flying around.
I do keep trying earnestly to refine the unnecessary portions of that. I do know that AT BEST, there's still likely to be an annoying amount of that.
On FR, such responses or such elements of my responses were initially and continue to be directed at folks who PERSISTENTLY ASSAULTED ME, MY PERSPECTIVE, MY SANITY, MY IDEAS ETC. IN USUALLY HAUGHTY, AUTHORITARIAN, DOGMATIC ETC. WAYS.
That pattern of stimulus and response undoubtedly has some aspects which are carryovers from my intense group process training, experiences, conditioning--development of my persona and who I am.
I learned there that many such sources of stimuli ARE NOT GOING TO BE PHASED AT ALL, MUCH LESS CONSTRUCTIVELY, BY CONVENTIONAL, POLITE, EVEN CIVIL ETC. COMMUNICATIONS--WON'T EVEN REGISTER--MUCH LESS SCRATCH THE SURFACE of their awarenesses and understandings.
I'm really not interested in trying to bother communicating for NO effect. No fun at all.
Consequently, I've been extremely extensively trained at getting under such skins, behind such walls of defenses etc. etc. etc. AND MY WRITING OBVIOUSLY DOES THAT, TOO.
Of course, as in the intense groups, many individuals quickly begin to sense that they ARE GREATLY UNHAPPY that someone has broken through such defenses in the least bit of a way. And the counter assault is ON!
In a group--it's virtually guarnateed--at least in my groups--to be worked through to a successful conclusion of truly redemptive lasting change.
On this medium, that's not remotely guaranteed. It's far from a closed loop context. Identities are hidden/public; genuine/phoney; honest/deceptive; vulnerable/bombastic; insecure/tyrannical; scared/angry; . . .
This is much more like one on one face to face relationships regarding such things. That's a very mixed bag with a cross section of the average population. However, even there, I have a lot of experience and data. A huge percentage of folks who've walked away furious at me have returned or crossed paths later to confess that the stuff from me that was SOOOOOO TERRIBLY HARD TO HEAR had saved their lives, saved their marriages; saved their kids; saved their relationship with God etc.
HOW DARE I, MAD DAWG, HOW DARE I ROB OTHERS--POTENTIALLY--OF RETURNING WITH A SAME POSITIVE GROWTH RESULT? . . . whether out of self-preservation, fear, insecurity, politeness, desire for acceptance or affiliation needs or whatever???? I can't do that avoidant thing. Got too many singed tail feathers trying that.
YEAH, it would be wonderful to be Mr Marry Poppins with spoon fulls of sugar to help the medicine go down. And, God has mercifully given me some humor and silliness to help. However, when the rubber meets the road, it's much more the WHITE WASHED TOMBS comments that strike folks to the bone marrow and send them flailing at my throat or running off screaming in the night.
YET IT IS ALSO those very INTOLERABLE phrasings which later bring the most life where redemption is at all possible.
I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU AND CERTAINLY THE RABID CLIQUE FOLKS MAY WELL FIND THAT TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLE. I'm not responsible for your incredulity on such matters. I'm responsible to The Lord to carry on as He trained, conditioned, taught and commissioned me.
I can tell when somebody disagrees and when he feels very strongly bout his disagreement. But this is not useful information. What I need is the thought process that leads to the disagreement.
I appreciate that. USUALLY you get a fair amount of that from me. Sometimes you get a lot of it. You can usually ask for more successfully.
I realize that given my often enough convoluted thought processes, it's not always easy to ferret out of my stream-of-consciousness writing style. However, with your considerable perceptive and intellectual skills, I think you usually succeed.
Why don't I make that easier? I could probably add somewhat to that. Not always easy and sometimes it would get in the way of communication and impact.
Oh! I know! If I may use the pop-psychobabble of Transactional Analysis ... I like to think I am concerned with adult conversation. I know keeping some stuff straight in my head is demanding. It SEEMS to me that some of these exotic posts are almost punitive; that they are working against "hooking the adult"; that they are degrading, as though I were being punished.
Sometimes the line between polite/adult/civil and phoney gets exceedingly thin.
If I'm ever in doubt, I'm likely to leave polite etc. in the dust and go for starkly genuine, brash, abundantly clear etc. Of course there will STILL be miscommunication, misunderstandings etc. Such is the nature of being human and of communicating between humans. However, I'd rather the fall-out from intensely genuine than the fall out from phoney.
PUNITIVE? Probably there's some strong element of that on more than a few occasions. SOME IDIOCIES DESERVE A HARSH SLAP DOWN.
HOWEVER, THE RC'S WAIL AS THOUGH THEY DIDN'T DISH THEM OUT LIBERALLY. THAT'S UTTER NONSENSE. THEY DISH THEM OUT ALL THE TIME--THEY JUST DO IT IN THEIR SANCTIMONIOUS VATICAN, PSEUDO-LOFTY-PSEUDO INTELLECTUAL, PSEUDO-POLITE STYLE. IT DOESN'T WASH WITH THIS TEXAN/NEW MEXICAN POOR WHITE TRASH FARM BOY. I'LL PULL THE LID OF THAT SANCTIMONY IN A FLASH.
AND THAT is part of the outrage against me. Of course. Understandably. Just because it's an unpopular service of mine does not mean it's unfitting, unwarranted or useless.
Now that I think of it, that MIGHT could have something to do with some of the return fire. I mean if A is punishing B, A can be seen as taking a "parent" role on himself and as trying to force B into a "child" role. IF that is the perception (whatever the motivation) then A will be seen as bombastic and his interlocutors will be tempted to try to "take him down a peg."
Sure. And that's fine with me. Most folks with discernment above that of a mouse know that I'm not at all haughty nor at all authoritarianly parental over them. However, folks who only look at the surface or who are still bleeding and wailing about the lid being pulled off their phoniness or sanctimony are not at all going to see deep enough beneath the surface to know, believe and understand, much less touch my egalitarian attitude, heart to heart attitude, co-turkey in the field attitude.
Just a thought.
On the other hand, I DO (note use of capital letters) appreciate that sometimes it's hard to convey tempo and emphasis with monofont pixels.
THANKS TONS FOR THAT APPRECIATION. YOU AND LEGATUS ARE WONDERFUL BROTHERS. LOVE IT.
Oh well, different strokes, sez me. (I'm studying to be a liberal) (No I am not EITHER!)
Am late getting out the door but wanted to respond to your meaty post. LUB.
BTW, SOME OF WHAT ELSE I THINK WE SHARE IN COMMON IS A DISDAIN, HATRED OF THE PHONEY.
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