Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
Thank you for considering my viewpoint!
Abandoning sinful private interpretations and accepting the word of God would be a better measure for them.
A pretty impartial analysis of these issues was done by an Israeli historian of Europe named Martin van Creveld in his Rise And Decline Of The State published by Cambridge University Press.
I should also mention that the first modern political parties - by which I mean people forming groups on the basis of ideology and not in terms of political factions based on social status (rich versus poor, my family versus your family, noble versus commoner, etc.) - were in medieval Italy. They were called the Guelphs and the Ghibellines. The Guelfs were supporters of papal rule in Italy and the Ghibellines of imperial rule. Most of these political partisans were citizens of republics that were allied with either the Pope or the Emperor. Many of the pope-supporting Guelfs were highly critical of the Popes and sometimes went to war against them - but their ideology was that they preferred papal influence from Rome rather than foreign imperial influence from Germany. The Ghibellines took the view that the Emperors had historical right through the Lombard monarchy to rule in Italy and that the popes were too weak to prevent the French from dominating Italy (they were right).
The most famous Catholic poem, Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy was written by a disillusioned Guelph turned quasi-Ghibelline (he thought the solution was finding an Italian-born prince who could be elected Emperor) and much of the poem discusses contemporary events he was involved in.
I'd like to be of Booz, but my wife says it's too early.
I like the new art deco font.
Whatever for? Wouldn't that be like me trying to pass as Obama? I mean, I want some dignity here ...
I once went through the horrified list of Marian titles and attributions and explained them. So when I see virtually the same list again I realize this isn't about conversation but about fighting. And I'm just not very interested in fighting.
Could be your explanations weren't very convincing...
I can do the same thing you do...Pick a couple of words out of a sentence and try to attribute something intelligent to it...Nice try tho...
Well, suppose that were so. And suppose that this were a conversation.
Then somebody would say, "The weaknesses in these explanations are such-and-such." And then we could look at them, and talk about it.
But that is not what happened or what happens. Instead there is a lot of "No! It doesn't mean that. Whatever you say, I know you believe thus-and-so." And a great many more people don't even read the explanations.
So, while it could be true that my explanations were weak, it is still true that this does not have the quality of a conversation among adults.
"That there is only One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church we are compelled by faith to believe and hold, and we firmly believe in her and sincerely confess her, outside of whom there is neither salvation nor remission of sins.....Furthermore we declare, state and define that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of all human beings that they submit to the Roman Pontiff."
POPE BONIFACE VIII Unam Sanctam (November 18, 1302 AD)
If this fails to meet the standard of "infallibility" please enlighten me.
It's after 5pm somewhere, in fact it's after 5pm here. I'm going to go be of booz and then maybe some of what passes for Christology on this forum will make some sense.
I suppose I've had it very easy, I grew up in a strict evangelical/holiness home and was never exposed to anything outside of the Wesleyan tradition during my formative years. Even the distinctive Baptist beliefs of some of my relatives were hidden by whispered discussions between my parents. After my extended flirtation with applied atheism Catholicism just filled in all the holes in the theology I was exposed to as a child. If anyone had ever given me this business about Our Lord "becoming" divine I think I would have flirted with professional alcoholism.
Adoptionism is a square peg in a round hole, come to that it's not even a peg, it's a cheese sandwich. Although my father was struggling with modalism which is similarly weird, he gave it up for lent one year. It's in that area that I see the tragic failure of Protestantism which bases itself on Scripture alone, each generation reinvents the wheel and usually gets almost everything wrong in an almost infinite variety of error.
The Unam Sanctam citation would make for a very interesting intra-Catholic discussion. If it was a genuine exercise of infallibility does the degree of submission necessary change with the man holding the office? I mean Benedict seems to have a very relaxed view of what’s required, so too his immediate predecessors.
Constantine converted on his death bed. His influence on the Church subsequent to that point was through his son Constantine II.
Of course his "conversion" is a legend. There is no proof whatsoever he ever considered himself a Christian.
OK so is your position that Jesus Christ was not God prior to the Baptism in the Jordan but that He became God at that point? Or even if it isn’t something you believe do you accept that as a legitimate Christian doctrine?
Does that then mean there are two persons in Christ or that the divinity that descended upon Him was a force and not a person?
I was going to ask what “part” of the Godhood calved off to become this new godling but my brain refuses to even seriously entertain the idea. I can’t understand where what it looks like you’re asserting leads other than total madness. Please make sense of it. I’m not trying to trap you, I’m not mocking, I’m just totally flabbergasted.
He seems to have thought he was a Christian, at least in terms that would have been acceptable in his day. You might say there's no definitive proof, but claiming there's no proof whatsoever seems to be going too far.
At the very least he was a better public Christian than the current President of the United States, even taking into account the way he murdered his way through his own family.
Nope...I believe Jesus was God from the get-go...But for those who don't, so what??? The Jesus who died on the Cross, apparently even for them, was the God of Creation...
The point is; even for those of that perception, your religion is miles farther away from the truth than they are...
I've seen it posted many times by you guys that one has to go thru Mary to attain salvation...
One of your former popes declared thru a papal bull(?) that there is no salvation outside of your religion...
That's all a bunch of anti biblical bunk...And yet you criticize some folks who are confused as to when Jesus became God...
You need to be specific citing definitive facts to be deemed credible. As for the laughable statement about Papal Letters, they are not infallible unless issued “Ex Cathedra”.
Is there a problem of accepting reality? Self serving statements bereft of any merit do not enhance credibility. If one can't discern the rules for the issuance of Papal Bulls then how can one be trusted to interpret sacred scripture correctly?
I've seen it posted many times by you guys that one has to go thru Mary to attain salvation... ... That's all a bunch of anti biblical bunk...And yet you criticize some folks who are confused as to when Jesus became God...You seem quite confused as to what the actual teachings of the Catholic Church are. Have you any interest at all in the truth or do you enjoy repeating obvious falsehoods?
I am still, however; waiting for an answer concerning it's "infallibility" according to the published formula.
FWIW I have asked the same question many times in the past few years and have yet to receive a reasoned answer.
I do have my own well reasoned logic to explain the absence of a definitive answer:
THERE IS NO CATHOLIC TEACHING WHICH IS SO CLEAR IT CANNOT BE DENIED, MODIFIED, OR RE-INTERPRETED AS REQUIRED!
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