How soon they forget
"Let he that is without sin cast the 1st stone"
Apostasy was a high crime when we had religious states.. Servius was sentenced to death by Catholics too ...
Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
OK, now we're getting somewhere, do you support the death penalty for heresy?
I'm not a proponent of the death penalty because of what it does to us, not out of concern for the guilty. I'm not going to call it unjust, but I do think it is unwise. I'm not going to call for it to be abolished but neither am I going around looking for witches to burn.
Uh... did you just ignore the citation where Calvin wrote that he wanted Servetus sentenced to death? You wrote that Calvin wanted Servetus preached at, I provided a citation from a letter where Calvin wanted Servetus sentenced to death. Did you notice that there's a citation from a letter where Calvin wanted Servetus sentenced to death?
In your mind does being preached at equal a sentence of death? Because I PROVIDED A QUOTE FROM CALVIN WHERE HE HOPED SERVETUS WOULD BE SENTENCED TO DEATH. I'd be more than happy to post the exact citation again.
Furthermore, I also provided a citation from a letter where CALVIN WROTE THAT HE WANTED SERVETUS SENTENCED TO DEATH. But most importantly there's a citation up the page where Calvin says he wanted Servetus sentenced to death, your argument was that Calvin wanted Servetus to sit through a sermon.
Pastors can't save anybody, all they can do is preach the gospel.
Now as to the revered (in some circles) Theresa, the woman attained her reward here on earth, and that is what the bible teaches. She sought the acclaim of men and she received it. She mingled with all the great of the earth who ran after her, longing to touch her skirt. They adored (worshiped) her and she allowed it. I know of no instances where she insisted that Christ and Christ alone, led to mankind's salvation. She was a new age guru-- she said "Do what feels right to you". In that she is no differnt from the Dalai Lama, Deepak Chopra, or Oprah.
In light of the day he was living in, his attitude was comparatively compassionate. By today's standards it is harsh and cruel.
But don't forget that the Protestants had a lot of barbarism and atrocity in dealing with heretics to unlearn.
It would have been nice if it happened overnight, but it didn't.
It's ironic how Calvin is so condemned for his attitude towards heretics by members of an organization whose history of dealing with heretics is less than exemplary.
Of course not.
However, you never hoped that some child rapist wouldn’t get the death penalty?
If I diligently searched your posting history, would we find you in favor of sparing the life of the rapist?
God instituted the death penalty before the Law. It is for the government to administer for the protection of society. The death penalty does nothing to us except make society safer.
Too bad you apparently don’t have any concern for the victims of the crimes, or the future victims if the guy is released on good behavior and goes out to do it again.
Sure you do or you wouldn't keep blurting out the same falsehoods ad naseum in the hopes of corrupting me.
In short, the atheist doesn't start with reality; he starts with a "blueprint" into which he fits his picture of reality. Reality doesn't need to be directly confronted/consulted up front. It is rather the by-product of his relentlessly reductionist, wholly subjective thinking processes.
And thus is a "second reality" constructed, to be laid over first reality in an attempt to utterly obscure it from view.
Truly you say, for the the atheist "information must be drastically filtered down to only those pieces which are relevant to the blueprint." That blueprint gives no recognition whatsoever to the spiritual dimension of reality (which I think includes all universals, especially including the natural physical and moral laws of the universe), which the atheist effectively denies with his denial of God.
Ultimately, this is an exercise in trying to make "man the measure"; I don't think this approach has a snowball's chance in Hell of succeeding. But its potential for spectacular failure is clearly evident to me.... Human history is replete with examples.
FWIW.
Thank you ever so much, dearest sister in Christ, for your truly outstanding essay/post!
FWIW I think "Whateveritarian" is a pretty good description.
Oh well. Do you expect any different?
I agree that good deeds are good, the issue is do they save or are they a fruit of your salvation.
The unsaved can and do , do works men call good. All creation is ruled by God, He is the God of the unsaved, even if they do not realize it.. He uses them for His purposes and to achieve His ends .
Scripture says "For all that is not of faith is sin.", Jesus called works of the unsaved done in His name "inequity" .
I don’t know that in my adult life I have ever wished the death of any person. I hope I haven’t, I wouldn’t be surprised if I had.
I didn’t write that I oppose the death penalty out of concern for the criminal, nor that I would even seek to abolish it. Neither did I say I wanted to release anyone from prison for “good behavior”. You’re reading into what I wrote something that simply isn’t there.
As for the use of the death penalty not having an effect on society other than to make us safer. I disagree. I agree it certainly makes us safe from the executed criminal. It does seem to coincide with brutality and coarseness though, that is to say that those who scream for executions are usually not the sort of people I want to be like anyhow.
So is the civil judgment of men unjust ?
Dr. E wrote that Calvin wanted Servetus to sit through a sermon, I provided a citation that showed Calvin wanted Servetus sentenced to death. That citation was ignored.
Really ? What about the thief on the cross? His good work was??????
I know Catholics make doctrine out of silence...but that leaves the field wide open for much error
As an example.. Christ was really a space alien who "rose" in a space ship.. I know this because scripture does not say it is not true.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
It is no more possible to corrupt one who is completely corrupt than it is to pour two quarts of "corruption" into a one quart container.
Only JESUS is the Truth and HE sets me free
It appears that Calvin wanted Servetus sentenced to death according to this:
I hope that sentence of death will at least be passed on him; but I desired that the severity of the punishment be mitigated. "Calvin to William Farel, August 20, 1553, Bonnet, Jules (1820–1892) Letters of John Calvin, Carlisle, Penn: Banner of Truth Trust, 1980, pp. 158–159. ISBN 0-85151-323-9." Wikipedia entry on Michael Servetus
Calvin hopes for death at least, but that it not be severe. I'm not sure if that means "less dead" and I'm really not sure what "death at least" means either.
How soon they forget
"Let he that is without sin cast the 1st stone"
Apostasy was a high crime when we had religious states.. Servius was sentenced to death by Catholics too ...
Get a satellite charger!
So you would say then the judgement of the Geneva court was indeed righteous?
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