Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.
The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).
The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.
The Intentions Made Plain
The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:
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"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization
"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.
"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.
"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.
"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.
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Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.
This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!
In Their Own Words
The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.
[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]
Two Comments
First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.
This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.
Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.
Questions are not statements. In spite of your indignation. Why are you carrying their water. What’s in it for you?
shun/MarkBsnr/shun. No one by that name found on Silverlings radar.
I don’t have a problem with the TRUTH. I embrace the TRUTH. It’s the hypocrisy here that I find objectionable. The “Christian” witness has been anything but from the beginning of this thread.
I award you a gold star for cleverness and you may stay after school and clean the blackboard erasers. I see that the lower officer ranks have been called in. How many more are coming, like swarm of bees?
I don’t have a problem with the TRUTH. I embrace the TRUTH. It’s the hypocrisy here that I find objectionable. The “Christian” witness has been anything but from the beginning of this thread. It’s a good thing I know actual Christians.
It’s been brought to my attention you have recently lost your job. Perhaps that’s why you post so belligerently. Who knows? I’m not a mind-reader. Just a reader. And your posts cross the line and break the rules of the FR Religion Forum over and over and over. You call everyone names and make really snotty personal comments. I’ve had dozens of FReepmails in the past few days wondering if you’re trying to get the thread pulled, no doubt because the RC apologists here have given such a paltry defense of their faith.
INDEED.
I wonder how many employers and bosses think employees with such chronic, mean-spirited, nasty, haughty, ALWAYS RIGHT, beligerency make wonderful employees???
Over my 63 years, I can’t think of a single boss who’d think so.
Nevertheless, compassion is still preferable to a lack of compassion.
If I didn’t know better, I’d think someone just called you insane again.
Not quite so clever. You get a red star.
Look at the company. They're justing looking for somebody normal to join them.
Hey, you, of all people, just called markbsnr a liar. Since you are the self appointed expert on the forum rules shouldn't you know better?
Speaking of posts filled with lies and venom, have you ever gone back and read some of the outlandish accusations you make against the Catholic Church, or do you think you have some moral cover since you so often incorrectly refer to it as Rome?
It appears that the Catholics have forgotten several important verses about the tongue.
James 3 1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.
3When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. 4Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. 5Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. 6The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell.
7All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being tamed and have been tamed by man, 8but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.
9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
Bomber pilots will tell you that the flack is always heaviest directly over the target.
This is no different than when they piled onto Quix over the Jesus being bioengineered by aliens fracas which they started about him.
I find it interesting that Catholics seem to have no compunction about slander and liable in spite of how they rag on non-Catholics whenever they think non-Catholics are *bearing false witness*.
INDEED TO THE MAX.
Maybe the best clues are in their slavish to rapturously gah-gah devotions to the following Stations
of the Stations of the White Hanky:
1. Icon to bearing false witness
2. The black/white icon of duplicity, the double standard dance
3. The icon to the doctrine of—when all else fails—kill the messenger.
4. Icon to chronically changing the subject
5. Icon of obfuscations to the supreme degree
8. Icon of the rubber daffynitionary
9. Icon of the rubber logic text
10. Icon of hubris to the supreme degree
11. Icon of the fickle fingers groping for any explanation but the truth
12. Icon to the unholy flip-flops in word meanings and arguments
13. Icon to the kill-the-messenger-in-worshipful-behalf-of-Mary strategy
14. Icon to the fantasized divine right, to be correct, pristinely sanctified & perfectly flawless in all respects in all cases all the time, regardless of facts documenting the opposite.
15. Icon to chronic & obsessive inconsistency.
16. Icon to the rc rabid clique trolling ritual
17. Icon to the undivine right of terminal snootiness to the max.
19. Icon to the haughty tyrannical !!!!DEMAND!!!! for an apology for imagined wrongs that never happened.
20. The half size gold projector Icon to the psychodynamic defense of PROJECTION
21. The golden forked tongue icon to lying in behalf of Mary, THE VATICAN and the hallowed white hankys.
Cheers!
“to pray thus” you quote. What does that mean? That only those words can be used in prayer?
The word outos is used numerous times in the New Testament and it pretty much means this is how you should do it. It is an authoritative expression, a command of how things are to be arranged or settled, etc. There is an entire encyclopedic compendium on this term that pretty much states this is how you will do this. It's not a statement of principle.
Obviously not as the entire seventeenth chapter of John is a prayer offered by Jesus. He parayed out of doors at Gethsemane (Matt.26:36), he prayed before thousands. (Matt. 14:19)
I will not comment on John here because it is not a simple subject to comment on, given the luggage attached to "John's" Gospel. Perhaps on another thread.
Re: Matthew 26:36 Jesus removed himself from all but two disciples, and then walked away form them as well in order to pray alone, and not in front of them. In Matthew 14, he merely gave blessings (thanks), which can not be construed as "prayer".
The specific word is eulogeo (from which the English word eulogy comes from) and which in Greek means praise.
The Greek word for "to pray" is proseuchomai. The root of this word (euchomai) means to wish or ask for; and pros means towards. Thus pros+euchomai means placing your wish towards someone, stating your wish, asking for a favor, a petition; it is never confused with praise (eulogeo).
So how does one “pray thus”? “outos”, In this fashion, in this way, so, thus. What Jesus said carries no thought of repeating verbatim that model of priorities that deserve prayer. (Matt. 6:9)
Peter and John prayed in a group with an ‘invented’ prayer.(Acts 4:24-30)
They also went to Jeruslaem when Jesus told them not to go there. And they went to Samaria when Jesus told them not to go there. And they baptized in his name (Act 2:380, 8:12, 8:16, 10:48) instead of following the Greayt Commisison's (alleged) Triniatrian formula (Mat 28:19), etc.
Try to imagine Peter in papal regalia or John taking or accepting titles of “Reverend, Father, Most Reverend, Holy Father”, and what self glorifying distinctions religious “leaders”, Catholic and otherwise, lay upon each other.
You are mixing ecclesiology with theology. The idea of God appointing people in different capacities in the Church came from Paul (1 Cor 12:28). jesus only speaks of him being appointed. But nothing in the NT forbids formation of church titles and administrative positions, or robes and vestments.
Not to neglect to remember that in the ancient times, vestments were important identifiers of who you were and what your business was. Today they represent the unchanging tradition of the Church.
Or picture Paul saying he would preach to the Gentiles only if he had the right robes and rituals and suitably impressive building. Instead he preached in the public squares and in peoples’s homes. (Acts 20:20)
Well, Christian movement had a humble beginning, as all movements do, even those that become world-wide. Wen Paul preached, Christianity was a Jewish sect that had no statute of significance in the pagan world.
Then measure ALL, church, sect, branch, faith tradition, rite, orthodox and schismatic, protester and traditionalist against all the verses of the Bible if any are to measured against any of its verses.
The Bible is not about the Church. Ecclesiology is a different subject, not covered in the Bible.
Do you know what Christian worship is as distinguished from what passes today as “Christian” worship and doctrine?
Why, sure. The liturgical worship of the catholic and Apostolic Church, as it was established in the early Church, based on Judaic worship services. The New Testament, it should be mentioned, says very little if anything about how to worship.
Cheers!
Still...this is leaving the door to hell open if one has not repented of thier sin and is struggling to overcome it.
Since alcohol has been mentioned lets say someone is struggling with that...we all know it’s a very real battle and hard to overcome. So let’s say they have started drinking again and for some reason die..car accident or just drink this time too much and keel over. No time to repent of this sin...so then because they fell once again and died then you are saying because they have not repented of this sin they are doomed for hell?
They who? That was a different thread. Are you exempt?
I know exactly what Dreck was implying with that link. She is too clever by half.
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