Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
Illusion: 3 2
Fantasy: 0
Hope: fading fast
When I got my eternal life preserver.. I did swim it ..in the other direction..:)
++++++Yet there are many True Believers (tm) who take their theology from those who rebelled against those who rebelled against those who rebelled against those who rebelled against those who rebelled against the Church. And then modify it further.++++
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2578704/posts?page=11900#11900
Let us believe then, dear brethren, according to the tradition of the apostles, that God the Word came down from heaven, (and entered) into the holy Virgin Mary, in order that, taking the flesh from her, and assuming also a human, by which I mean a rational soul, and becoming thus all that man is with the exception of sin, He might save fallen man, and confer immortality on men who believe on His name. In all, therefore, the word of truth is demonstrated to us, to wit, that the Father is One, whose word is present (with Him), by whom He made all things; whom also, as we have said above, the Father sent forth in later times for the salvation of men. This (Word) was preached by the law and the prophets as destined to come into the world. And even as He was preached then, in the same manner also did He come and manifest Himself, being by the Virgin and the Holy Spirit made a new man; for in that He had the heavenly (nature) of the Father, as the Word and the earthly (nature), as taking to Himself the flesh from the old Adam by the medium of the Virgin, He now, coming forth into the world, was manifested as God in a body, coming forth too as a perfect man. For it was not in mere appearance or by conversion, but in truth, that He became man.Here it comes... brace yourselves, this is awesome.
Thus then, too, though demonstrated as God, He does not refuse the conditions proper to Him as man, since He hungers and toils and thirsts in weariness, and flees in fear, and prays in trouble. And He who as God has a sleepless nature, slumbers on a pillow. And He who for this end came into the world, begs off from the cup of suffering. And in an agony He sweats blood, and is strengthened by an angel, who Himself strengthens those who believe on Him, and taught men to despise death by His work. And He who knew what manner of man Judas was, is betrayed by Judas. And He, who formerly was honoured by him as God, is contemned by Caiaphas. And He is set at nought by Herod, who is Himself to judge the whole earth. And He is scourged by Pilate, who took upon Himself our infirmities. And by the soldiers He is mocked, at whose behest stand thousands of thousands and myriads of myriads of angels and archangels. And He who fixed the heavens like a vault is fastened to the cross by the Jews. And He who is inseparable from the Father cries to the Father, and commends to Him His spirit; and bowing His head, He gives up the ghost, who said, “I have power to lay down my life, and I have power to take it again;” and because He was not overmastered by death, as being Himself Life, He said this: “I lay it down of myself.” And He who gives life bountifully to all, has His side pierced with a spear. And He who raises the dead is wrapped in linen and laid in a sepulchre, and on the third day He is raised again by the Father, though Himself the Resurrection and the Life. For all these things has He finished for us, who for our sakes was made as we are. For “Himself hath borne our infirmities, and carried our diseases; and for our sakes He was afflicted,” as Isaiah the prophet has said. This is He who was hymned by the angels, and seen by the shepherds, and waited for by Simeon, and witnessed to by Anna. This is He who was inquired after by the wise men, and indicated by the star; He who was engaged in His Father’s house, and pointed to by John, and witnessed to by the Father from above in the voice, “This is my beloved Son; hear ye Him.” He is crowned victor against the devil. This is Jesus of Nazareth, who was invited to the marriage-feast in Cana, and turned the water into wine, and rebuked the sea when agitated by the violence of the winds, and walked on the deep as on dry land, and caused the blind man from birth to see, and raised Lazarus to life after he had been dead four days, and did many mighty works, and forgave sins, and conferred power on the disciples, and had blood and water flowing from His sacred side when pierced with the spear. For His sake the sun is darkened, the day has no light, the rocks are shattered, the veil is rent, the foundations of the earth are shaken, the graves are opened, and the dead are raised, and the rulers are ashamed when they see the Director of the universe upon the cross closing His eye and giving up the ghost. Creation saw, and was troubled; and, unable to bear the sight of His exceeding glory, shrouded itself in darkness. This (is He who) breathes upon the disciples, and gives them the Spirit, and comes in among them when the doors are shut, and is taken up by a cloud into the heavens while the disciples gaze at Him, and is set down on the right hand of the Father, and comes again as the Judge of the living and the dead. This is the God who for our sakes became man, to whom also the Father hath put all things in subjection. To Him be the glory and the power, with the Father and the Holy Spirit, in the holy Church both now and ever, and even for evermore. Amen.I realize that's a wall of text the likes of which we rarely see, but I have no idea how to break it into paragraphs because it is one continuous stream of glory. I start bouncing up and down in my chair just reading it.
Oh... and your citation? It's not even factually correct "There is, brethren, one God, the knowledge of whom we gain from the Holy Scriptures, and from no other source" simply isn't true and even if it were it's limited to the knowledge of God, not the governance of the Church and everything else Sola Scriptura pretends to take on itself.
I know. I believe that somebody will answer for that, perhaps a group of somebodies. You lost the Faith, if you ever had it; somebody or somebodies will be held accountable for the loss of the little children and the turning away of the little children from Jesus.
Here's something that I wrestle with: if somebody has been abused physically, mentally, theologically by a member of the Church, what is the eternal crime held against the individual wronged and what is the eternal crime held against the perpetrator(s)? Are you considered to abandon the Church? Or will somebody be Judged to have driven you away and therefore your soul is not in peril? I pray for the latter.
Illusion: 3 2 Fantasy: 0 Hope: fading fast
Pray for hope. Pray for all men. Pray for the Holy Spirit to guide all. He will not abandon us. Jesus has told us that when He is taken up to Heaven, He will draw all men.
Some are in oil, some in watercolour, some in charcoal, some in crayon...
You are not seriously suggesting that the OPC theology comes from St. Ignatius...
Apparently most people over 40 have diverticulosis, most don’t know they even have it. It’s only a problem when you eat like a fool, high fiber diets keep things under control.
My son “overheard” us talking about it being related to pressure in the intestines and he freaked out and now whenever he has “pressure” he releases it. It’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so smelly.
LOL.
My first semester in college, my roommate was from Nogalas. He taught me several Spanish . . . crass vocabulary.
Particularly for farts.
It’s the SBD’s that get you.
If he doesn't start controlling himself he WILL "start a movement"...
Goodness! I’m ignorant, too!
GREAT POST.
THANKS THANKS.
However, as we know . . .
they don’t respond very well nor very rationally even to contradictions within the ‘sacred’ Catechism . . .
They’ll find some weasel word way around those fine quotes.
Except . . . for those who are rational, honorable, have high intellectual integrity etc.
Mark the definition of a prophet is one that speaks for God ..all scripture is Gods word given through men..they were therefore prophets writing as inspired by the Holy Spirit..
2Ti 3:16 — All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God,......."
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
You said that the Apostles taught Jesus from the Old Testament. The Apostles didn't teach Jesus anything. Jesus taught them.
Did i leave out a comma? The intent of that sentence was that the apostles taught OF Jesus from the OT, and from the the epistles ..that were scripture.. therefore it was incorrect to say they taught without scripture..sorry if that was not clear..
In biblical days they were not without a sort of mail service.. a letter to one church would be taken from one church to another .. They were circulated by the will and design of God
This is the biggest cop out that I have ever seen on this forum. "The will and design of God". Okay, prove it. Prove it scripturally or by another other means.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Mark did you ever hear the saying all roads lead to Rome?
History of western civilization
This is a historical fact..google a bit.. Christianity was more easily spread because of the Rome roads..If God had sent Christ 100 years earlier, the church could not have spread as fast and far.. Those roads allowed the church letters to pass from church to church to keep the doctrine pure and consistent
God chose the time of Christ's birth, the circumstances, His life and ministry, His betrayal, His crucification , paul as the church catechist , and the means and method of communication.. This is the church of Christ, not a church of happenstance
. Paul did not begin his epistles until at least 20 years after the death, Resurrection and Ascension of Christ. Catechism was the province of the Church -
And Paul was an apostle of Jesus Christ...It was Paul that God used to teach doctrine..even in Rome Mark.. peters letters were even later. Those letters were written when GOD inspired them..so they were written when God believed they were necessary to the church .
I have to LOL at the constant cry that I am somehow teaching Calvin.. no Mark.. I am not a catholic beholden to an imaginary pope.. I have used only scripture , except for the historic link on the roads of Rome you wanted..and if anyone REALLY cared about TRUTH it can be googled by anyone.. "the spread of Christianity and the Roman roads.. "
I am suggesting that maybe sola scriptura was not an invention of Luther
BTW I am not OPC..
Mark I had faith in a religious system, traditions and superstition. ..
What I found was Jesus Christ and faith in His work FOR ME
Matthew, Mark, Luke and James were Prophets? Negative. Show where they are identified as such in Scripture. Luke says that he gathered the information that was available. Not information whispered from God. Your definition is spurious and non Scriptural. Your definitions, unless you have something else, fail from the sola perspective, and therefore from the Reformed perspective.
Did i leave out a comma? The intent of that sentence was that the apostles taught OF Jesus from the OT, and from the the epistles ..that were scripture.. therefore it was incorrect to say they taught without scripture..sorry if that was not clear..
Only to the Jews. The Gentiles didn't care about the OT. They only cared about the message of Christ. Show me Scriptural proof of Apostolic teaching to the Gentiles of Scripture - and no, the Ethiopian eunuch was not pagan - he would have been Jewish.
In biblical days they were not without a sort of mail service.. a letter to one church would be taken from one church to another .. They were circulated by the will and design of God
This is the biggest cop out that I have ever seen on this forum. "The will and design of God". Okay, prove it. Prove it scripturally or by another other means.
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Mark did you ever hear the saying all roads lead to Rome?
In other words, you have no proof, either Scripturally or not Scripturally. You cannot prove the tracking of the copying and the distribution of any letter, Gospel or any other Christian letter whatsoever. Your sola scriptura beliefs fail yet again. You guys keep bleating about the holiness of sola yet you violate it repeatedly on even the most cursory examination. Your source on the History of western civilization does not elaborate on the spread of the letters. I am not going to do the homework for you that you would ask of me. You claim sola. It fails. You ask me to google. You fail. Do your proofs or stop claiming what you claim. I contend that your view is completely wrong and have supplied the reasons based upon the civilization and the attitude towards the area of Palestine at the time of Roman occupation. 10,000 Jewish rebels hanging on crosses do not a crisp postal delivery service from that area make.
And Paul was an apostle of Jesus Christ...It was Paul that God used to teach doctrine..even in Rome Mark.. peters letters were even later. Those letters were written when GOD inspired them..so they were written when God believed they were necessary to the church .
Later? How much time do you think that they had? Peter died before Paul, ca. 65 or so. Paul did not start writing until ca. 50 and Peter? Some sources place 2 Peter as late as 150 AD. You have not told us the magical mechanism whereby these letters were transmitted and copied en masse and then transmitted again. Do you have clue one as to the time frame required? Obviously not.
I have to LOL at the constant cry that I am somehow teaching Calvin.. no Mark.. I am not a catholic beholden to an imaginary pope.. I have used only scripture , except for the historic link on the roads of Rome you wanted..and if anyone REALLY cared about TRUTH it can be googled by anyone.. "the spread of Christianity and the Roman roads.. "
You bleat about sola scriptura and have nothing. You have nothing about the actual timeline of the spread of the letters - including the numbers, the copies, the contents of the copies and who got them and when. You have nothing and yet believe sola. Guess what? You guys have a whole less to go on than the Church that you left.
So then the gospels are not the word of God? Interesting
I am suggesting that maybe sola scriptura was not an invention of Luther
BTW I am not OPC..
Interesting. Somebody accused you of being OPC. May I enquire?
They are not dictated from God, as He did to Moses, or as Muhammed claimed, or as Joseph Smith claimed.
No, they are inspired by the Holy Spirit who uses men to the best of their abilities, enabled by Him.
That's what I mean. Somebody either through commission or omission has led you down that path and will be answerable for it to Him.
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