Posted on 08/27/2010 11:45:13 AM PDT by Hank Kerchief
If it's important to you, how about your church?
Briefly, love of God and love of neighbor -- they really do encompass all the commandments. We believe that Church is the surest guide in helping us to cooperate with the grace of God to grow in love. We believe that, in free will, we can reject that grace -- in fact, we do reject it every time we fail and sin. Enough failures can add up to a total rejection.
Nicely stated!
Nice try NL...
In context... the letter was written to whom?
It was written to jewish believers that were scattered around the world during the Diaspora, and undergoing persecution
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
This addresses the priesthood of the believer.. NOT an ecclesiastical priesthood
The letter is addressed to the church, the saved believers.. not an ecclesiastical body
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
1Ti 3:8 ¶ Likewise [must] the deacons [be] grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
The deaconate is a PRESCRIBED ROLE in the New testament church..the priesthood is not..
1Ti 5:17 ¶ Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine
Elders are a prescribe roll in the New Testament church ..the priesthood is not
Tts 1:5 ¶ For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
Elders are a prescribed role in the NT church , the priesthood is not
The ecclesiastical roles prescribed for the New testament church are Elder , deacon and overseer or Bishop
There is no priesthood role in the New testament church
Ordination is a practice of the new church ... each of the roles prescribed were ordained to the position, much as they are in my church today
Stalk?
Has Alex been rummaging through your trash? Far as I can tell he quotes what was said in a public place.
Not hardly stalking.
Now if Alex posts quotes that are embarrassing to the OP perhaps FRoman Catholics should think twice before saying embarrassing things.
Which is why I ignored it.. it speaks for itself
LOL LOL LOL EXCELLENT quick uptake ...
Not to wander off topic, but for those who are interested here are the criteria for the diagnosis of paranoia:
* preoccupied with unsupported doubts about friends or associates
* suspicious; unfounded suspicions; believes others are plotting against him/her
* perceives attacks on his/her reputation that are not clear to others, and is quick to counterattack
* maintains unfounded suspicions regarding the fidelity of a spouse or significant other
* reads negative meanings into innocuous remarks
* reluctant to confide in others due to a fear that information may be used against him/her
The only thing that is clear to me is that even if I had presented you with a tablet direct from the Burning Bush you would have rejected based upon some contrived restriction, exclusion, or limitation authored in Geneva.
In that only a fraction of the World's Christians accept your belief and that errant belief has only been around for less than 1/4 of the duration of Christianity you are on the wrong side on that debate.
Nope. I believe that I've met a scarce few who do. They have an aura about them and by their words and deeds and attitude and humility, they are a whole lot closer closer to imitating Christ than I am.
Or the occupant of the LaZBoy Throne.
Just show it to me..if it is there I am sure you can show me where it is outlined in the Nt church ..no problem right?
I personally think Orthodoxwiki did a great Job on the topic of Priesthood
Some excerpts..
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Presbyter#History
Presbyter is, in the Bible, a synonym for bishop (episkopos), referring to a leader in local Church congregations. In modern usage, it is distinct from bishop and synonymous with priest. Its literal meaning in Greek (presbyteros) is “elder.”
Through the sacrament of holy orders, an ordination to priesthood is performed by the bishop. But this requires the consent of the whole people of God, so at a point in the service, the congregation acclaim the ordination by shouting Axios! (He is worthy!)
The earliest organization of the Christian churches in Palestine was similar to that of Jewish synagogues, who were governed by a council of elders (presbyteroi). In Acts 11:30 and 15:22, we see this collegiate system of government in Jerusalem, and in Acts 14:23, the Apostle Paul ordains elders in the churches he founded. Initially, these presbyters were apparently identical with the overseers (episkopoi, i.e., bishops), as such passages as Acts 20:17 and Titus 1:5,7 indicate, and the terms were interchangeable.
Shortly after the New Testament period, with the death of the Apostles, there was a differentiation in the usage of the synonymous terms, giving rise to the appearance of two distinct offices, bishop and presbyter. The bishop was understood mainly as the president of the council of presbyters, and so the bishop came to be distinguished both in honor and in prerogative from the presbyters, who were seen as deriving their authority by means of delegation from the bishop. The distinction between presbyter and bishop is made fairly soon after the Apostolic period, as is seen in the 2nd century writings of St. Ignatius of Antioch, who uses the terms consistently and clearly to refer to two different offices (along with deacon).
Initially, each local congregation in the Church had its own bishop. Eventually, as the Church grew, individual congregations no longer were served directly by a bishop. The bishop in a large city would appoint a presbyter to pastor the flock in each congregation, acting as his delegate.
The Orthodox Church often refers to presbyters in English as priests (priest is etymologically derived from the Greek presbyteros via the Latin presbyter). This usage is seen by some Protestant Christians as stripping the laity of its rightful priestly status, while those who use the term defend its usage by saying that, while they do believe in the priesthood of all believers, they do not believe in the eldership of all believers.
Presbyters are often referred to as Father (Fr.), though that is not an official title. Rather, it is a term of affection used by Christians for their ordained elders. In this context, a priest’s first name is generally used after the word Father.
Numbers do not determine truth.. the CROWD yelled crucify Him
"Many are called but few are chosen "
Where would you find Megachurch Preacher in the NT?
MD... You're close!
MD, I am really curious about your post. Could we have some examples of what you mean by this?
I will quote Jesus in John 18:30 to answer you.
Scripture is our Final rule of faith.. we have tradition, and catechisms and theologians ...but all are subject to the scriptures..
What is the final rule of faith for catholics? What is the measuring rod to know if it is truth or error ..??
This mediator [Jesus Christ], first through the Prophets, then by his own lips, afterwards through the Apostles, revealed whatever he considered necessary. St. Augustine City of God book XI Chapter 3
For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life ...
Source: St. Augustine, On Christian Doctrine, book II, Chap. 9,
Chapter1, #3 ... I have learned to yield this respect and honour only to the canonical books of Scripture: of these alone do I most firmly believe that the authors were completely free from error.
Letter 82 From Augustine to Jerome.
For although the sacred and inspired Scriptures are sufficient to declare the truth,謡hile there are other works of our blessed teachers compiled for this purpose, if he meet with which a man will gain some knowledge of the interpretation of the Scriptures, and be able to learn what he wishes to know,耀till, as we have not at present in our hands the compositions of our teachers, we must communicate in writing to you what we learned from them,葉he faith, namely, of Christ the Saviour; lest any should hold cheap the doctrine taught among us, or think faith. in Christ unreasonable.
Contra Gentes (Against the Heathen.), by St. Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria; and Doctor of the Church; about 318 A.D.
Rarely have I seen such a complete and utter failure to understand salvation, redemption, grace, God's gift of the finished work of Christ, or God's word in such a compact display of darkness.
Why did Christ have to die for our sins? Why did God raise Him from the dead?
This is what all the years of catechism have taught you? And this is what Catholics are taught to depend on?
"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." (2 Tim. 3:7). This Scripture has never made more sense than it does at this moment. And that is saying a LOT.
Ummmm....I found it!
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.-Matthew 7:15
I can tell you without reading it that he had to have failed :o)
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