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To: RnMomof7; Mad Dawg
Your priests perform things only Christ can do.

MD... You're close!

MD, I am really curious about your post. Could we have some examples of what you mean by this?

11,715 posted on 10/15/2010 3:10:45 PM PDT by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: smvoice
Could we have some examples of what you mean by this?

I feel like I left a lot of the building blocks of the argument in many of my posts since I posted the excerpt from Vincent of Lerins on development.

And the atmosphere here is so hostile, that I fear [see the post on paranoia ;-) ] that it's a waste of time and will only focus the opposition.

The essential argument is:
1)that by the Spirit and by Grace, the Church is the body of Christ and each of us members.

2) In everything ecclesiastical that's going on in the NT, one thing that's happening is that all this miracle and wonder and call are being, as you might say, "processed."

3) Christ is THE High Priest.

4) Therefore the Church, the body, has a priestly function.

5) So the question becomes
      (a)HOW to exercise that function and
     (b) how to exercise some kind of, what, editing, certifying, function. (You don't suppose that all the people Paul said needed to leave the Church just went home and moped, do you? I think many of them just set up shop somewhere else and said, "WE'RE the real deal." So how is the sincere believer to know?)

6) The 'overseer' probably fairly early on 'presided' at community 'breaking of the bread and the prayers.' As the Church grew, we envision that he delegates that presiding function to presbyters -- sent them over to the suburbs or the other side of town to exercise the overseer's ministry.

7)[Grant me, for the duration, the premise that the Mass is not, strictly speaking a repetition, but is THE paschal act, made present in time and space. We are not, strictly speaking, doing something AGAIN. Okay? Just for the time being?]

8) Also the "sins ye remit" function is delegated, So many sins, and sinners, so few bishops-- this actually took a few centuries to get sorted out - "processed".

9) The "president" at these functions is, in our view of the 'making the past present' So to speak, presiding at the priestly functions of the great High Priest. Through His promise and command we re-present, make present the acts of His priestly ministry.

10)Therefor the hieratic aspect of priesthood gets conceptually attached to the offices of overseer and elder; BUT

11) They are not priests like any before, and certainly not a continuation or revivification (except in a dangerous but sometimes useful analogy); BECAUSE

12) It is CHRIST's priesthood. It is in no fundamental sense "theirs.". This CAN be so only because we are members of His body and, having died and been brought to, not ours, but HIS life we can dare to function in His stead.

When Paul says, No I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me, (and we might add "in spite of me"), we take that VERY seriously.

I may be a fool, I almost certainly AM a fool, but when I was an Episcopal priest I never for a minute thought it was anything of mine or about me as me that was involved with the Eucharist. "I have sinned, I have sinned, and I know my wickedness only too well" (The Song of Manassas). It was Christ keeping His promise despite the remarkably unworthy man in a dress standing by the altar and monkeying with bread and wine.

Again, this is not to persuade. It is a schema, an outline of the KIND of thinking that in our view justifies a sort of kind of priesthood.

I hope that is at least clear.

11,739 posted on 10/15/2010 6:13:18 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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