Intended Catholic Dictatorship

Independent Individualist ^ | 8/27/10 | Reginald Firehammer

[Hank Kerchief]

Intended Catholic Dictatorship

The ultimate intention of Catholicism is the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire. That has always been the ambition, at least covertly, but now it is being promoted overtly and openly.

The purpose of this article is only to make that intention clear. It is not a criticism of Catholics or Catholicism (unless you happen to think a Catholic dictatorship is not a good thing).

The most important point is to understand that when a Catholic talks about liberty or freedom, it is not individual liberty that is meant, not the freedom to live one's life as a responsible individual with the freedom to believe as one chooses, not the freedom to pursue happiness, not the freedom to produce and keep what one has produced as their property. What Catholicism means by freedom, is freedom to be a Catholic, in obedience to the dictates of Rome.

The Intentions Made Plain

The following is from the book Revolution and Counter-Revolution:

"B. Catholic Culture and Civilization

"Therefore, the ideal of the Counter-Revolution is to restore and promote Catholic culture and civilization. This theme would not be sufficiently enunciated if it did not contain a definition of what we understand by Catholic culture and Catholic civilization. We realize that the terms civilization and culture are used in many different senses. Obviously, it is not our intention here to take a position on a question of terminology. We limit ourselves to using these words as relatively precise labels to indicate certain realities. We are more concerned with providing a sound idea of these realities than with debating terminology.

"A soul in the state of grace possesses all virtues to a greater or lesser degree. Illuminated by faith, it has the elements to form the only true vision of the universe.

"The fundamental element of Catholic culture is the vision of the universe elaborated according to the doctrine of the Church. This culture includes not only the learning, that is, the possession of the information needed for such an elaboration, but also the analysis and coordination of this information according to Catholic doctrine. This culture is not restricted to the theological, philosophical, or scientific field, but encompasses the breadth of human knowledge; it is reflected in the arts and implies the affirmation of values that permeate all aspects of life.

"Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church.

Got that? "Catholic civilization is the structuring of all human relations, of all human institutions, and of the State itself according to the doctrine of the Church." The other name for this is called "totalitarianism," the complete rule of every aspect of life.

This book and WEB sites like that where it is found are spreading like wildfire. These people do not believe the hope of America is the restoration of the liberties the founders sought to guarantee, these people believe the only hope for America is Fatima. Really!

In Their Own Words

The following is from the site, "RealCatholicTV." It is a plain call for a "benevolent dictatorship, a Catholic monarch;" their own words. They even suggest that when the "Lord's Payer," is recited, it is just such a Catholic dictatorship that is being prayed for.

[View video in original here or on Youtube. Will not show in FR.]

Two Comments

First, in this country, freedom of speech means that anyone may express any view no matter how much anyone else disagrees with that view, or is offended by it. I totally defend that meaning of freedom of speech.

This is what Catholics believe, and quite frankly, I do not see how any consistent Catholic could disagree with it, though I suspect some may. I have no objection to their promoting those views, because it is what they believe. Quite frankly I am delighted they are expressing them openly. For one thing, it makes it much easier to understand Catholic dialog, and what they mean by the words they use.

Secondly, I think if their views were actually implemented, it would mean the end true freedom, of course, but I do not believe there is any such danger.

—Reginald Firehammer (06/28/10)

[mas cerveza por favor]

ambiguity is used to disguise error

[caww]

So we come to the term "worship". From the Catholic perspective, others have an on/off switch when it comes to honor. We see a notion in others that is odd to us: if you honor someone in the religious sphere, it's worship. For us there is a difference between honor, veneration and the worship of God. It's a source of great misunderstanding.

If this on/off switch then somehow places the worshipper simply honoring the representation of a saint...then how can they kiss it? and bow before it..? and carry it uplifted thru the streets? It is an idol that is being paid homage on a consistant basis.

Yes it shouldn't be there is such misunderstandings but there are... and I think rightly with reasons for sincere concerns, not only for those who practice this but those who promote it.

When I see a statue of a known physical appearance of someone who has been honored...I look and might be grateful for their mark in history...but that's it. Nice but there is zero religious aspects involved. When I see people praying to statues and bowing before these it is very dicomforting to see for me.

We have the Bible which honors them and gives their life history and what our heroes of the faith have done. But they all pointed to Christ...not on themselves as anyone who could do anything on their own...it was always of and in Christ. Not so with how the catholic church assigns various departed saints with special powers...though they are with the Lord. There is a vast difference between these.

[Natural Law]

"Bible-believing Christians on FR continually offer evidence from the Roman Catholic catechism, encyclicals and writings from popes, various church fathers and other Roman Catholic apologists."

I don't believe that there is any honest or fair attempt to present legitimate and actual Catholic dogma by the anti-Catholic so called "Bible-believing Christians" who troll these threads. When not posting content from loony and forbidden sites, imaginary conversations, and fabricated anecdotes from former or failed Catholics, the actual words of the Catechism, encyclicals and writings are presented either out of context or with deliberately fabricated definitions that completely shift their meanings. When these errors are pointed out over and over and over again the response is ignored, the proof is scoffed at as some sort of Roman conspiracy, and the original lies repeated again and again and again.

Fortunately the assault is not unlike and no more effective than an ant climbing the hind leg of an elephant with rape on its mind.

[bkaycee]

Peter is an apostle, evangelist. Is anyone praying to Peter?

[caww]

The Holy Spirit is eminently the Spirit of Truth, and it is His abiding solicitude as Advocate and Guide which has been the hope and assurance of Christians for these two thousand years. To affirm that His presence in the Church was somehow insufficient or truncated throughout many centuries of her life, and that it is in this century alone that believers can truly experience the full fruit of His outpouring, is the grossest caricature of the reality, the shallowest of insults to His perpetual and loving indwelling of the Mystical Body of Christ. Such an attitude must be answered; it is in defense of -------- truth and the indefectibility of the Church that we attempt to do so:

I agree with this part except it is not only the catholic church but the body of believers in full.

Good post Judith..

[bkaycee]

So which is it? Directly to the Father? Or with Jesus as Mediator?

Prayer to the Father is customary, but either is acceptable, given they are both fully God.

[D-fendr]

Would this prohibition of Idols not also apply to any idol of any man or woman, creature etc. that is used in a religious manner?

Definitely. However we still have to be clear on what makes an idol an idol. I think we have established that a statute, engraving, image of human does not necessarily make it an idol.

If that is not worship than what would call it?

After the question of idols, this is the next key consideration.

Again, I'm not being facetious, just trying to illustrate clearly:

You've seen candelight vigils and parades for lost children, and candles lit, flowers placed around pictures of the lost child, etc. You've seen bowing before royalty (verbotten for US presidents); you've seen a groom bow before his bride, a young man bow before his dance partner (boy, am I dating myself.)

I realize these are not religious situations. The point is the action itself is one of honor or respect, veneration is also defined as the act of honoring.

So, the question is first: do these actions in and of themselves constitute worship. I think I've illustrated they do not. Second, can they possibly be acts of worship. I think the answer is yes (and I feel certain you'll agree with me on this one.)

I said before that from a Catholic perspective, non-Catholics have an on/off switch for honor, or rather a lack of scale for honor. We see their view as not allowing any honor in the religious sphere - the on switch is triggered, and it automatically is worship. We think this is in error. Honor should not be relegated only to non-religious people. Further, we think, if one is to scale honor, religious heroes should be far ahead of political and sports heroes.

To us the view that we cannot bow to honor a saint or a bishop without fear of worshipping them is foreign, an odd worry. Further, not to honor them, emulate them, ask for their prayers for us seems needless and counterproductive to our faith. We can honor religious figures (heroes as I described earlier) without worshipping them. [ I should note that contemplation and icons is a related subject, but for now will stick to honor/worship ]

So, when does an act become worship? When am I honoring my date and when am I worshipping her. (Don't laugh, I was a love-struck youth). Again, this is difficult to see externally, just as it is impossible purely externally to look at a religious carving and know whether it is an icon or idol.

We would have to address this question by understanding what worship of God means. Is it gratitude? Can we be grateful to someone other than God or God only. What else is it?

The key in my opinion is in our knowledge of God. If we do not know who God is, I mean deeply, then worship is meaningless and likely confused. If we mistake another for God, in whole or in part, then we have violated the commandment regardless of our worship.

The foundation of our religion is who God is, who we are and what our relationship to God is. All the questions about idolatry can be reduced to and addressed by consideration of these elements.

thanks very much for your courteous reply.

[RnMomof7]

Ya think?Who were the commandments written for?

[caww]

You shall not worship the LORD your God with such things.”

I knew I'd seen this verse recently....God was giving them instructions...and clearly Israel was not to use things to represent Him....and i believe those used as a proxy to somehow bypass Christ to Him..won't work.

[RnMomof7]

Why did God make man?

[Mad Dawg]

It IS going to be interesting. I’m in a very small sample, but our Province (more or less eastern 1/3 of the US has more novices than it’s had since before Vat II, and the young (College/graduate school) Catholics in our parish tend to the Scholastic (not to say Inquisitorial heh heh - uh, I think) side of the spectrum.

Our Sunday is kind of a ‘Y’all come!” phenomenon: 7:30 AM is Mostly Latin (and well attended); 0900 is ‘family’ and traditional hymns, nothing too bizarre; 1130 is “folk Mass” - gag me; and 1715 is “Life Teen” which is as close as we get to “prayer and praise” (I.e. “Charismatic”) in a Mass. It’s pretty good for what it is, though it’s not to my taste. I’d go to the Latin if it weren’t at 0730.

We have a weekly “prayer and praise” group which is openly “charismatic.” Our immediately previous pastor (now the ‘prior’ of the province, a moderately big deal) and our current pastor are liturgically tolerant and doctrinally firm. So while there are little bubbles of, ahem, error, nothing seems to blossom.

On the other hand, the other big Catlick parish in town is very heterodox, but in the liberal rather than the charismatic direction.

[MarkBsnr]

God is not the Father of all men

Fascinating. Paul says differently:

Ephesians 4: 1 1 I, then, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to live in a manner worthy of the call you have received, 2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another through love, 3 striving to preserve the unity of the spirit through the bond of peace: 4 2 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Where do you guys get your theology? Not from the Bible, obviously...

[MarkBsnr]

Roman Catholics need to read all the Gospels and not just the few verses of the Beatitudes. Rome preaches another Gospel. It isn't Christianity; it Beatitudism. Much like Hinduism - good works/karma save us.

The Catholic Church appears to be the only entity preaching the Gospels. We know from Wagglebee's post (yet again) that the OPC sure doesn't. Do you guys ever really hear the Gospel in your church? I don't see it in your posts; you have snippets of Paul along with the snippets of Isaiah that you guys have cobbled together to create a pantheon of Greek or Roman gods that kill or save at whim. I have seen posted on here over the last couple of weeks the greatest departures from Christianity under the name of Reformed theology that I have ever seen in my life.

Christianity is sure a mystery to the Reformed. You guys keep saying that Catholicism is pagan; well, look at what has been posted under the Reformed label. You guys don't even get the Trinity correct.

[OLD REGGIE]

Good read up but you have been misled about basic historical facts by anti-Catholic propaganda. Some clarifications:

I agree with you that the excerpts posted by caww were fraught with error. However, assuming the quotes are correct, the "anti Catholic propaganda was written by Monsignor Phillip Hughes with apparent review and approval of the Catholic Church.

Mgr. Philip Hughes, "The Church in Crisis: A History of the General Councils, 325 - 1870".

Nihil Obstat: James A. Reynolds, Ph.D. Censor Deputatus

Imprimatur: + Francis Cardinal Spellman Archbishop of New York September 28, 1960

The nihil obstat and imprimatur are official declarations that a book or pamphlet is free of doctrinal or moral error. No implication is contained therein that those who have granted the nihil obstat and imprimatur agree with the contents, opinions, or statements expressed.

The Church In Crisis

I recognize "doctrinal or moral error is a convenient "out" but "anti-Catholic"?????????????????????

[wagglebee]

I've actually been told on one of these threads that the Gospels aren't even for Christians, they were written for Jews ONLY, BEFORE the Church existed, to be used by the Jews after the Rapture.

[mas cerveza por favor]

You did not reference the Commandments. You quote passages concerning to pagans in a reference to Catholics. That is misrepresenting Scripture.

[RnMomof7]

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

See how things change.. you are quoting Paul to me, and I will quote jesus to you

Jhn 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

Jhn 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God

.Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];

To be a child of God one must be adopted ...

[Natural Law]

"To be a child of God one must be adopted ..."

Is anyone ever denied adoption who genuinely seeks it? Does that then mean that the works of seeking to be "adopted" are the real deciding factor?

[mas cerveza por favor]

Christianity is sure a mystery to the Reformed. You guys keep saying that Catholicism is pagan; well, look at what has been posted under the Reformed label. You guys don't even get the Trinity correct.

The "Reformed" movement is heavily influence by Jewish theology that sees all Christian teaching as pagan, even those beliefs still kept by the Reformed.

[Cronos]

Actually, it doesn't remain to be seen -- as I said, people wrote us off during the persecutions of Nero, of Tiberius, of Domitian, of Julian the Apostate. They wrote us off when the Western Roman Empire collapsed, when the Arian Lombards and Visigoths invaded Italy and Spain (respectively). They wrote off the Catholic Church when the Protestant forces over-ran much of Europe. They wrote us off when the Republicans in Spain and Mexico etc. persecuted The Church.

And, yet, The CHurch endures -- not because of anything we do -- in fact, at times it seems to endure INSPITE of what we do, but because of the grace of the Holy Spirit.

You may look around, etc, yet the number of faithful that I see in the rest of the world is growing. When I travel to Asia, to Africa, to South America, even now to Western Europe and Canada, I see burgeoning Catholic Churches, compared to what it was in the 90s, the number of young, and the number of converts is shooting up, enriching The Church.

The big old Protestant mainline groups are selling out, yes -- as I said, these various heresies don't last long and yours too, will die out soon. In fact, the average half-life of the various heresies is getting shorter. For example, the pentecostals already have had a number of splits and many of the Pentecostals are now taken in by the bigger schmucks like Benny Hinn and the Word-of-Faith movements!

The freedom to re-write scripture has resulted in these pentecostals movements like Jesse Duplantis who said he visited heaven and comforted Jesus and saying "God has the power to take life, but he can't".... "He's bound, he can't!"..."He says death and life is in the power of whose hands? yours"..."you choose when you live, you choose when you die"

THIS is where personal interpretation leads.