Another vicious, inaccurate, and contradictory New York Times attack on Pope Benedict

catholicculture.org ^ | July 2, 2010 | Phil Lawler

[annalex]

“the apostolic college”? I don’t see that anywhere in my bible

Matthew 10:1-10, 28:16-20, similar in all the gospels.

In the beginning St. Paul speaks in the first person, then switches to "we", and yes, that is the "saints" that he was addressing.

[small voice in the wilderness]

Well then the “saints” would be all believers, not an apostolic college.

[betty boop]

Given your previous post, what is it exactly that you think you disagree with me about?

I just can't think of any way that I could be the "center" of anything. Except as a locus of God's love. But all His children are likewise. I have no claim of being anything special in this regard. That's all I was trying to say, dear annalex!

[shibumi]

I wrote, "I just don't have the time and furthermore, I'm not sure the answer would be well received."

To which you responded, "Fine. I will assume, then, that we are talking insanity and treat it accordingly. Thank you."

Do you not even recognize the close paraphrase of your own words?

(But then, to quote the motto of The Firesign School of Philosophy "I think we're all Bozos on this bus.")

[Alamo-Girl]

So, yes, he would be in the ceneter of the universe, and everywhere else, but not exlcusively.

So what.

[Alamo-Girl]

The physical geometrical center of the universe is most likely just that, a hole between the galaxies. Woop-tee-doo.

That doesn't compute.

For one thing, by current estimates there are 100-200 billion galaxies in the universe.

[kosta50]

Do you not even recognize the close paraphrase of your own words?

I know one thing: when someone tells me he or she is only "visiting" this world but can't tell me where they are "visiting" from, I can only treat it as insanity.

[kosta50]

Do you not even recognize the close paraphrase of your own words?

I know one thing: when someone tells me he or she is only "visiting" this world but can't tell me where they are "visiting" from, I can only treat it as insanity.

[kosta50]

So what.

So, he is not in any aprticular place if he is everywhere. Ergo he is not in the center of the universe.

[D-fendr]

I *think* the correct theology is God is immanent in the physical universe and transcendent. Present everywhere (”Where is God not?”), but more than that presence, not just this presence or the sum of these presences or fully located by this presence.

“No simple location” is be another way I’ve heard it put scientifically.

[count-your-change]

Is there an answer that can be discovered or is it a question on the order of “How many angels can stand on the head of a pin?”?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You wrote:

"Obviously the "fruits" of the HS are not evident in all believers."

I disagreed with that remark and asked how you knew your statement was true and you replied...

"It's obvious in everyday life."

How is it obvious?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

1 John 2:19 is of course correct.

How could it be otherwise? lol

[count-your-change]

But the Scriptures DO speak of God having location, does it not?

[shibumi]

"If you are really a product of a materialistic universe, how is it that you don't feel at home there?" - C.S. Lewis

(Is there nothing in you that finds the nuanced, inferred, lyrical or mystical when you read?)

When you read "Bereshit bara Elohim et hashamayim ve'et ha'arets. Veha'arets hayetah tohu vavohu vechoshech al-peney tehom veruach Elohim merachefet al-peney hamayim. "

You see nouns, verbs, tense, syntax and inferences.

When I read the same text, I see This:

You and I, we are from different worlds. The difference is, in your world I am insane. In my world you are welcome.

[Alamo-Girl]

me: The term "created world" is not broad enough to include the Creator of it.

you: Oh, in that case I don't disagree at all that God is in some metaphorical way (I insert this caveat because He is truly outside of the Created world) the center. I was careful to say "center (again is a certain useful but not geometrical sense) of the Created world" all along and that excludes God from the consideration.

Thank you for clarifying your views, dear annalex!

As I said back at the beginning of this sidebar, I am not the center of the universe - neither the physical universe nor 'all that there is.'

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Mark 5:36 ("Be not afraid; only believe.")

The believe here is that Christ can heal the daughter of Jairus despite her apparent death. Note that this is a good prooftext for the intercession of the saints as well as for veneration of relics. But it does not prove Faith Alone.

I hope you won't mind me flagging a few saints to your completely preposterous remark. It's almost as ripe as your comment that you long for the days of the Inquisition to return.

First of all you are confusing two verses. I assume the "relic" you're putting your faith into refers to Christ's garment that the woman had just touched in hopes of being healed. But note that even here, it is her faith which saved her...

"Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole" -- Mark 5:34

Regarding the later verses, Christ is not talking about intercession or relics or dental x-rays. He's telling a man how to pray, and how to live.

Fearlessly, by the faith of Christ alone.

It's pretty sad that you look to worldly "relics" even as Jesus Christ is standing right there in the flesh performing miracles.

All idolatry is the same; it robs God of His glory and invests that glory into a material thing which can be traded and bartered and bought.

This is Rome. A merchant whose scale is faulty.

[D-fendr]

But the Scriptures DO speak of God having location,

Certainly, his abode, the Ark, Holy of Holies, the Temple Cult, etc. is a good example, but there is also "Where is God not?" And there's also "Who art in Heaven"

I think I'd say that Immanent and Transcendent is a theological description.

[count-your-change]

Then being in a particular place He is not everywhere?

[D-fendr]

If I understand your question, He is everywhere, but more than that. You can see that if He were “just everywhere,” fully defined by that, then we could have a nature religion, or worship the (all) creation.

In the OT, we have Him appear as (in) a burning bush, pillar of fire, residing in the temple, etc.

So, theologically, we’d have to deal with those questions as well as the location of God.