Double talk ..
Eph 8:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ, (by whose grace you are saved,) 6 And hath raised us up together, and hath made us sit together in the heavenly places, through Christ Jesus. 7 That he might shew in the ages to come the abundant riches of his grace, in his bounty towards us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; 9 Not of works, that no man may glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.
Read this my friend..Our salvation is a completed work of Christ, He has already raised us to heavenly places
No where does this say that our salvation has ANY dependance on works, it says the saved will do works.. but not works they do from their own design . but works God has designed for them
INDEED.
Rnmomof7: Double talk ..
Double talk indeed! I've been hoping someone would take this up. My mouth dropped open when I read, "We are not saved by works alone or by faith alone.". So what is being said here, and what most if not all of the RCs on this forum say, is that it is both faith AND works that save.
I cannot imagine a concept so devoid of reason especially in light of the following verse:
Romans 11:6 (King James Version)
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 11:6 (Amplified Bible)
But if it is by grace (His unmerited favor and graciousness), it is no longer conditioned on works or anything men have done. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace [it would be meaningless].
And that is my point...you can't have it both ways - and neither does God. You are saved by grace through faith - unmerited, or you are saved by works - merited.
with fear and trembling work out your salvation. 13 For it is God who worketh in you, both to will and to accomplish, according to his good will. 14 And do ye all things without murmurings and hesitations; 15 That you may be blameless, and sincere children of God, without reproof, in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation; among whom you shine as lights in the world. (Phil. 2)
Note that while God is "working in us" we have to "work out" our salvation, which therefore is in the future. One cannot "fear and tremble" over things already accomplished.