Rnmomof7: Double talk ..
Double talk indeed! I've been hoping someone would take this up. My mouth dropped open when I read, "We are not saved by works alone or by faith alone.". So what is being said here, and what most if not all of the RCs on this forum say, is that it is both faith AND works that save.
I cannot imagine a concept so devoid of reason especially in light of the following verse:
Romans 11:6 (King James Version)
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Romans 11:6 (Amplified Bible)
But if it is by grace (His unmerited favor and graciousness), it is no longer conditioned on works or anything men have done. Otherwise, grace would no longer be grace [it would be meaningless].
And that is my point...you can't have it both ways - and neither does God. You are saved by grace through faith - unmerited, or you are saved by works - merited.
Double talk indeed! I’ve been hoping someone would take this up. My mouth dropped open when I read, “We are not saved by works alone or by faith alone.”. So what is being said here, and what most if not all of the RCs on this forum say, is that it is both faith AND works that save.
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“We are not saved by works alone or by faith alone.”
That sounds just like a passage out of the BOM (see below), works based salvation! I always ask them the same question I ask everyone that believes in a works based salvation. What did you do to get clean and do you repent for your rightious deeds (good works)? Isa. 64:6.
“2 Nephi 25:23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”
“After all we can do”, works! If that’s true, why do we need Jesus?
I don’t think most people understand the major implications of grace and salvation and what God did for us. What God did is what man couldn’t or can’t do to save themselves!
There are also people that boast about doing something for salvation Eph. 2:9 is very clear, but Eph. 1:4 says that I was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world! I wasn’t there to make a decision about my salvation before the foundation of the world and no one else was either!
The context in Romans 11 (as well as in the preceding chapter) is the salvation equally available to Jews and Gentiles;; the point in verse 6 is that the remnant of the Jews that is saved is saved by the unmerited grace of Jesus (Whom the majority of the Jews rejected), the "works" therefore is the works of Jewish law that the pharisaic Jews thought salvific. Grace does not exclude good works motivated by charity, as we've seen in Eph. 2:10, Mt 5-7, Mt 25:31-46, Rm 2:6-10.
Of course, once work is done out of obligation of any kind or an ulterior motive of any kind, it is not salvific.