Well said.
Remember this gem?
;-)
Posted on 06/01/2010 9:52:44 AM PDT by NYer
I have read some of Luther's and Calvin's stuff...I am neither a Lutheran nor a Calvinist...But I have read a LOT of Catholic stuff...
This is all I ask. She is the beautiful bride of Christ, unstained and pure.
I also read the scriptures...That's how I know that your religion is NOT the Bride of Christ...The actual Bride of Christ is people...People who make up the Body of Jesus Christ...Individual Christians...
In your eyes, are Catholics in your Parish unstained and pure??? I would guess you think they aren't...Well then, the Catholic Church isn't the people, priests or popes...It's not your Church Fathers...What then is your Church??? Is it the 'message'???
Well of course we get it...People aren't non Catholics because of ignorance...Quite the contrary...
I claim I am a Christian of the Scriptures...You claim you are a Christian of what you call religious Traditions and philosophy outside of the Scriptures mixed with the book of allegories, the bible...Mormons, JWs, Izlamaniacs have the same philosophy...
Your religion says, 'join your Church'...My scriptures say, 'call on the name of Jesus'...
I don't believe you and you don't believe me...One of us is trusting the words of Jesus in the scriptures...One of us is trusting the words of a religion...I'm counting on what was revealed in the scriptures 'alone' to get me to heaven just as John says...
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Based on John's statement and tons of other scripture, I put my trust and authority in the written worlds of God; alone...
You mean Catholic apologists, of course...I have a greater authority...The written words of a Holy God...The scriptures condemn your religion...Your apologists defend your religion...I'll stick with the scriptures...
please, try to remember John 17. Love one another, as a witness to the Lord.
That’s a good question.
If you read Ephesians 5, you’ll find your answer.
The Bride of Christ is his Church. It’s right there.
“I claim I am a Christian of the Scriptures...”
Yes, you claim this. However, this is not so. Scripture does not claim to be the only authority. Scripture itself writes that tradition is also necessary.
The Church teaches, if you care to read, that Scripture and Tradition are both essential. You cannot rightly understand the one without the other.
It does not claim, as you assert that scripture is worthless, or that tradition is superior. Tradition and Scripture, Scripture and tradition together.
“Your religion says, ‘join your Church’...My scriptures say, ‘call on the name of Jesus’...”
What is the difference? Christ himself formed the Catholic church. He wants Christians to be together with one another, not as individuals.
“I don’t believe you and you don’t believe me...One of us is trusting the words of Jesus in the scriptures”
No, we both do, except one of us is wrong in what it says. You are very wrong in saying that scripture asserts sola scriptura. It does not. Scripture actually says that the tradition of the church has been handed down from the Apostles to the catechumens, the new believers, and these new believers have a duty to do the same.
“Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
And Timothy says we are to pass the traditions we have learned to one another.
“Based on John’s statement and tons of other scripture, I put my trust and authority in the written worlds of God; alone...”
Where does John include the word, alone? It’s not there. You’ve interpolated it into the text as Luther has.
In which case, traditions would have nothing to do with our salvation...Because John said everything to do with our salvation had been written...Traditions would be such as shaking hands with the brethern as they gather...
But more to a scriptural reference, the traditions were the scriptures before they were written...
Timothy said tradition OR scripture...How could one OR the other be authorative unless they are the same...How can you pick one, or the other unless they are the same???
Not at all...Show me how you would rewrite the sentence to include tradition without adding to what John wrote...
Yes Thats The Apostles creed- I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven
and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our
Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius
Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He
descended to the dead. On the third day He rose again.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of
God, the Father Almighty. From thence He shall come
to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy
Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church(universal church), the communion of
saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the
body, and the life everlasting.
Amen.
Don’t bother arguing with this person. Gone are the days of civilized, reasoned argument; FR is full of snake-handlers, Roundheads, and Rapture jockeys now, and you might as well try debating with a bag full of sponges. Just leave him to the Holy Spirit and let him get back to his self-centered home-brew religion.
Well said.
Remember this gem?
;-)
That is simply and completely false, but it does illustrate an annoying and damning facet of Protestantism. Protestants are often very quick to declare what the Catholic Church does or does not without ever having actually bothered to study the teachings of the Church.
Instead they cling to the false premise that Christianity is a religion of a book and not of the living Word of God. They would have us believe and accept that the Holy Spirit no longer moves and works among us; It's works having been completed when Scripture was completed (except for that brief time in the 16th century when the all inclusive scripture was redacted).
A sect based upon a document is what one would expect from the vain and ambitious lawyers who created much of Protestantism. It is their realm, one that can be manipulated, twisted, and argued. It is one in which they, not God, can declare their fellow man in breach of and impart earthly punishments.
You would do yourself better by sticking to declarations on what you do and don't believe and stop trying to guess or parrot what you think Catholics do and don't believe because it really doesn't matter a tinker's damn to any of us.
Iscool:
I am grateful that you trust the Sacred Scriptures which the Catholic Church, which as Christ’s Body and Bride, defended and defined via the Holy Spirit in the 4th century.
Thus, everytime you quote the Sacred Scriptures, you are relying on the authority of the Catholic Church and its formal definition of the Biblical Canon in the 4th century councils of Rome (382), Hippo (393), Carthage (397) and culimating with Pope Innoncent’s Letter to the Bishops of France in 405 confirming throughout the Latin Catholic West the decisions of the Councils mentioned earlier.
What a terrific human and eternal life-affirming story.
I’m going to go back and read it again.
Now there's a reasoned, civilized argument...HaHa...
But no; just trying show you guys that Jesus said to come to Him, not a religion...You have to be 'in' Christ; not into Church...And they are not the same thing...
Right...Like the 'Come Home Network'...It's been stated how many times that you're not home unless you are in the Catholic religion...
Every Catholic gets baptized into the Catholic Church, right???
A little problem there...I don't quote from the Catholic scriptures...I quote from the scriptures that were borne out of Antioch, Syria, where people were first called Christians...
And those scriptures condemn your religion and it's priesthood...
However, even the Catholic scriptures point out serious errors in your religion but your church father, Origen, convinced your church that the scriptures were no more than an allegory, thus relieving your religion of the many biblical warnings against it...
Problem with that is; whenever you guys claim these things are an allegory, you don't seem to have a clue as to what they then do allude to...
Glad to read that...
Then you're not paying attention. The whole month of June is dedicated to the Sacred Heart of JESUS.
If you oversimplify it, yes. But every Catholic is foremost baptized In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, just as the Son commanded us to do (Matthew 28: 19).
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