The fight over Book of Mormon geography

The discussion on Book of Mormon geography was getting heated. Scholars gathered in Provo, Utah, to discuss their theories about where the events described in the Book of Mormon took place. Some placed the Nephite capital city Zarahemla in Mesoamerica, others in South America. Others argued for a setting in the American heartland.

The president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints attended the two-day Book of Mormon convention. Although he found the discussion interesting, he was obviously concerned that people were getting a little too worked up about their geographic theories. He decided to intervene.

The Book of Mormon geography conference was held at Brigham Young Academy on May 23-24, 1903. But the advice President Joseph F. Smith gave at that conference 107 years ago could apply equally to current disputes over Book of Mormon geography.

"President Smith spoke briefly," the Deseret News account summarized, "and expressed the idea that the question of the city (of Zarahemla) was one of interest certainly, but if it could not be located the matter was not of vital importance, and if there were differences of opinion on the question it would not affect the salvation of the people; and he advised against students considering it of such vital importance as the principles of the Gospel."

More recently, the Encyclopedia of Mormonism described how "Church leadership officially and consistently distances itself from issues regarding Book of Mormon geography."

But the lack of an official position hasn't squelched interest. The subject attracts highly trained archaeologists and scholars and informed — and not-so-informed — amateurs and enthusiasts. Books, lectures and even Book of Mormon lands tours abound.

In the middle of what could be a fun and intellectually exciting pursuit similar to archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann's famous search for the lost city of Troy, there are accusations of disloyalty tantamount to apostasy.

In one corner is the more-established idea of a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon. This theory places the events of the book in a limited geographic setting that is about the same size as ancient Israel. The location is in southern Mexico and Guatemala. The person most often associated with this theory is John L. Sorenson, a retired professor of anthropology at BYU, and the author of "An Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon" and a series of articles on Book of Mormon geography that ran in the Ensign magazine in September and October 1984. A new book, tentatively titled "Mormon's Codex," is in the process of being published.

In the other corner is the challenger, a new theory that places Book of Mormon events in a North American "heartland" setting. Like the Mesoamerican theory, it also is limited in area — but not quite as limited. Its symbolic head is Rod L. Meldrum and, more recently, Bruce H. Porter. Meldrum and Porter are the co-authors of the book "Prophecies and Promises," which promotes the heartland setting.

It wouldn't be hard to predict that some friction might come about from competing theories — that healthy sparring would occur with arguments and counter-arguments. But it has gone beyond that.

The source of the animosity comes from the heartland theory's mantra: "Joseph knew."

Joseph Smith made several statements that can be interpreted to have geographic implications. Proponents of a North American setting see these statements as authoritative and based in revelation. Mesoamerican theorists think that Joseph Smith's ideas about geography expanded over time and included approval of at least some connection to Central America.

To the heartlander, Joseph's knowledge about Book of Mormon locations is seen as proof of his divine calling and a testament to his being the chosen translator/expert of the book. Joseph didn't just know; he knew everything. This position, however, leaves little room for other opinions — or for charity.

"The way I look at Joseph Smith's statements is that he either knew or he didn't know. If he knew, he knew by revelation. And if he didn't know, you've got to ask yourself why he said the things that he said," Porter said. "If he didn't know, was he trying to show off? If he really didn't know, why was he telling people?

If you don't agree with this line of reasoning, by implication, you think that Joseph lied.

"My authority is Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon," Porter said. "Most of your Mesoamerican theorists, their authority is John Sorenson and Matthew Roper. They picked those as their authority at the neglect of Joseph Smith."

Matthew P. Roper, a research scholar at the Neal A. Maxwell Institute Of Religious Scholarship, naturally doesn't like this characterization. "They seem to be trying to elevate a question of lesser importance, Book of Mormon geography, to the level of the doctrines of the church," Roper said. "And even though they give lip service to things like they know the church has not given an official position, they turn around and say, 'All these people are dismissing Joseph Smith.' "

It is somewhat ironic that believing that Joseph did not "know" also supports Joseph as a prophet. The more Joseph's assumptions about Book of Mormon geography prove to be wrong, the greater a testimony that he did not write the book himself. "We assume," Roper said, "that since Joseph Smith was the translator of the Book of Mormon, and that it was translated by the gift and power of God, that he would know everything about the book that an author would. I would submit that the two are not the same thing. I could translate the 'Wars of Caesar' and not know anything about ancient Gaul or the different tribes."

When Meldrum's theories first became popularized through firesides and a DVD he produced, the Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research (FAIR) took notice and responded with gusto.

"The way he said things, they attack that more than they attack the evidence that he presented," Porter said.

Scott Gordon, president of FAIR, would not disagree. "We view this as a steadying-of-the-ark issue. We really don't care where he picks for his theory on where the Book of Mormon can take place," Gordon said. "What we care about that he is implying that the church is not following the teachings of Joseph Smith. Which means the church leadership, the prophet — everything is not following. And we think that is a very, very dangerous position."

"They are getting really worried because they are seeing this is becoming a movement. That's their words," Meldrum said. "They are just saying it's a movement because they are getting a lot of flak from people who are seeing the DVD and the information and thinking, 'You know what, this makes a lot of sense.' "

But supporters also see the heartland theory as an inspired movement that will transform the LDS Church: "(V)ery few people out there fully grasp the magnitude of this movement and the powerful influence that it is having and the sweeping nature of its message," wrote one prominent supporter. "It will sweep the church and most LDS will not even understand what happened until it's past. … Time is our friend."

Historian Ronald O. Barney has seen similar attitudes in some people supporting Mesoamerica. One person described a particular Mesoamerican book as "life-transforming" and that the book "changed the way I think about everything."

"People are hanging their faith on evidence of Book of Mormon peoples," Barney said.

"I just think that this way of thinking about our religion is such a waste of time," Barney said, "It almost suggests we don't trust the Holy Ghost. Not only are we worried that he won't reveal to people the truthfulness of the book, but we want to augment it — even if we have to bend and distort — so that there can be no mistake about its truthfulness."

"I don't know that this geography is true. I've said that many times and I want to make sure that that's clear. If President Monson was to tomorrow say, 'You know what? I've had a revelation and the Book of Mormon occurred in Indonesia,' you know what? I'm with him." Meldrum said with a laugh.

"(Geography) wasn't very important to him and he didn't know much about it," Sorenson said. "Joseph knew what he knew — and what he knew was far more important than geography."

The concern many of the “anti’s” here have is the PoGP, Journal of Discourses and the D&C. There are way too many outlandish “revelations” in those books for reasonable people to conclude that the LdS use only the BoM as scripture and as points of doctrine. What are your thoughts and what is the RLDS position on these?

Since the Book of Mormon was in print when the church was founded, it was already accepted as scripture. The revelations through Joseph Smith were simply presented as occasions required. The first attempt to gather these revelations into a book was the ill-fated 1833 Book of Commandments, which was only partially printed when the church's Independence, Missouri press was destroyed by enemies of the church. There is no evidence that a church conference had approved the book's publication.

The 1835 Doctrine and Covenants was approved for publication by church conferences, thus abiding by the doctrine of common consent, which means that church leaders must not force scriptures on the church without her approval through elected delegates to a general conference.

The 1844 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants added some documents, including some on baptism for the dead, which had never been approved by a church conference. The RLDS was founded on common consent, so the documents that had never been approved by a conference had less authority than those that had been approved. Although the 1844 additions were not officially removed from its canon until 1970, the RLDS never practised baptism for the dead.

Another document put forth by Joseph Smith in the Nauvoo period that had no conference approval was the Book of Abraham, later added to the LDS canon in her Pearl of Great Price, but never added to the RLDS canon.

The RLDS acquired the manuscripts to publish Joseph Smith's revision of the Bible, now referred to as the Inspired Version. I believe that this was authorized by a general conference.

As it has turned out, no documents by Joseph Smith presented during the Nauvoo period have a place in the RLDS, now Community of Christ, canon. It was during the Nauvoo, Illinois period that many of the doctrines that so many of us find objectionable developed. The Utah Mormon church was a transfer westward of Nauvoo Period theology, which they then developed further.

In the late 1800s a prominent Mormon scholar was trying to persuade the Mormon leadership that the Book of Mormon could not be true. About that time Martin Harris showed up in Utah testifying that the Book of Mormon is true. Harris so inspired the membership that abandonment of the Book of Mormon by the Mormon leadership could not take place. It is the Mormon church that has published millions of copies of the Book of Mormon, while the RLDS has not done much with it, due to some of its own scholars teaching that the book is a fraud.

The best edition of the Book of Mormon is the Restored Covenant Edition, which is based on the two original manuscripts, the dictated manuscript owned by the Mormon church, which has been only partially preserved, and the printer's manuscript owned by the Community of Christ, which has been preserved in completeness. I notice that a new Mormon edition has moved the text back towards the original manuscripts, no doubt inspired by the Restored Covenant Edition published by the Zarahemla Research Foundation, which was founded by Mesoamerican archaeologists who are convinced that Mesoamerica is the region in which Book of Mormon peoples lived.

I’ve been away today at family events and saw there was
quite a bit of discussion about my post that identified
mormonism as pure evil.

Thank you to those who stepped up to explain I meant
mormonism and not the book of mormon. I hasten to add that
the doctrines of demons are evil as well - specifically the
BOM.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is my original post:

Oh, no. It’s as evil as the day is long.

It denies the God of the Bible and makes him a man who became God. It also demotes him to one of trillions of gods
in the mormonic pantheon of gods.

It denies His son and makes Him into a creature.

It denies the Gospel of Grace and replaces it with works.

It claims to “restore the Church”, while doing all those things.

Pure evil.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just so there is not doubt: mormonism is pure evil.

It inoculates people against the truth by substituting
falsehood.

It substitutes falsehood about:

God
Christ
The Holy Spirit
The Gospel of Grace
The Atonement

AND EVERY OTHER AREA OF CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE AND BELIEF.

The result is a false gospel that isn’t the Gospel of the
Grace of God.

For this reason, millions are going through their works-filled
lives thinking they are pleasing God and on their way to
heaven. They are not. There is nothing about believing
a falsehood that leads you to salvation. The reverse happens -
people are led away from salvation by mormonism, by the
young mormon “missionaries”, and by the evil teachers who
perpetuate this collection of lies. They will bear a heavy
penalty for leading others to hell.

And the terribleness of people missing the grace of the
True God is why the Inmans post on FR. We shout fire to
wake up those who are in the sleep of self-righteousness,
and inoculated against the Gospel of the Grace of God.

best,
ampu

I first read the Book of Mormon in an attempt to know why it is false, so that I could explain that falseness to others, rather than just badmouth it in an ignorant way. To my astonishment...Its account of the ministry of Jesus Christ to the Nephites was stunningly beautiful to me. [John McDonnell]

Well, John, I have to say that you and I have a one MAJOR contrast in defining what is "stunningly beautiful". One key difference of the Book of Mormon “restored gospel” is presenting a violent Book of Mormon jesus: When the Book of Mormon jesus dies, he unleashes punishment and levels 16 cities, killing 70,000-->90,000 people (see 3 Nephi 8 and 3 Nephi 9). Nothing of the kind is stated in the Bible.

Yes, there was judgment on the cross!
Yes, it was terrible!
But the real Jesus absorbed all of that judgment and terror -- our very sins -- there on the cross!

Too many LDS & RLDS (Community of Christ) alike ONLY see the Book of Mormon Easter judgment upon people! The week that followed the Book of Mormon jesus’ resurrection, was a terrible 4 days or so! No wonder they want to stay away from the cross and what immediately happened according to the Joseph Smith version of events:

I notice that a new Mormon edition has moved the text back towards the original manuscripts, no doubt inspired by the Restored Covenant Edition published by the Zarahemla Research Foundation, which was founded by Mesoamerican archaeologists who are convinced that Mesoamerica is the region in which Book of Mormon peoples lived. [JM, Post #487]

Well, to continue on in making my last point, let's review what Zarahemla and the other Book of Mormon cities represent to its presentation of the Book of Mormon jesus.

Book of Mormon version of Jesus speaking post-resurrection:
city ZARAHEMLA: I burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof [3 Nephi 9:3; cf. 3 Nephi 8:8, 24)
city Moroni: I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned. [3 Nephi 9:4; cf. 3 Nephi 8:9]
city Moronihah: have I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof, to hide their iniquities and their abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come any more unto me against them. (3 Nephi 9:5)
city Gilgal: have I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth; [3 Nephi 9:6]
cities Onihah, Mocum, and Jerusalem: waters have I caused to come up in the stead thereof, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints shall not come up any more unto me against them. [3 Nephi 9:7]
cities Gadiandi, Gadiomnah, Jacob, and Gimgimno: all these have I caused to be sunk, and made hills and valleys in the places thereof; and the inhabitants thereof have I buried up in the depths of the earth, to hide their wickedness and abominations from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up any more unto me against them. [3 Nephi 9:8]
city Jacobugath: have I caused to be burned with fire because of their sins and their wickedness, which was above all the wickedness of the whole earth, because of their secret murders and combinations; for it was they that did destroy the peace of my people and the government of the land; therefore I did cause them to be burned, to destroy them from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints should not come up unto me any more against them. [3 Nephi 9:9]
cities Laman, Josh, Gad, Kishkumen: have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations. [3 Nephi 9:10]

In the true gospel Jesus is entombed.
In the book of Mormon so-called “restored gospel", the mass of people in Moronihah is the emphasis of entombment, having been covered with an entire mountain by the Book of Mormon jesus! (3 Nephi 8:10)
On Easter week! The other cities were all either sunk by the Book of Mormon jesus, or horrifically burned to death, plus for added emphasis, ”many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land...” (3 Nephi 9:12)

The true gospel: "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Bible, Mark 2:17)

The Book of Mormon Easter version of this: 11 And because they did cast them all out, that there were NONE RIGHTEOUS AMONG THEM, I did send down fire and destroy them, that their wickedness and abominations might be hid from before my face, that the blood of the prophets and the saints whom I sent among them might not cry unto me from the ground against them. [3 Nephi 9:11]
Now if the destruction of all these Book of Mormon “cities” wasn’t enough of an “Easter tale” for Smith, here’s what he said went on in immediate days following Jesus’ resurrection:
3 Nephi 9:12:
12 And many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land…
3 Nephi 8:
6 And there was also a great and terrible tempest; and there was terrible thunder, insomuch that it did shake the whole earth as if it was about to divide asunder.
7 And there were exceedingly sharp lightnings, such as never had been known in all the land.
11 And there was a great and terrible destruction in the land southward.
12 But behold, there was a more great and terrible destruction in the land northward; for behold, the whole face of the land was changed, because of the tempest and the whirlwinds, and the thunderings and the lightnings, and the exceedingly great quaking of the whole earth;
13 And the highways were broken up, and the level roads were spoiled, and many smooth places became rough.
15 And there were some cities which remained; but the damage thereof was exceedingly great, and there were many in them who were slain.
16 And there were some who were carried away in the whirlwind; and whither they went no man knoweth, save they know that they were carried away.
17 And thus the face of the whole earth became deformed, because of the tempests, and the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the quaking of the earth.
18 And behold, the rocks were rent in twain; they were broken up upon the face of the whole earth, insomuch that they were found in broken fragments, and in seams and in cracks, upon all the face of the land.
19 And it came to pass that when the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the storm, and the tempest, and the quakings of the earth did cease—for behold, they did last for about the space of three hours; and it was said by some that the time was greater; nevertheless, all these great and terrible things were done in about the space of three hours—and then behold, there was darkness upon the face of the land.
20 And it came to pass that there was thick darkness upon all the face of the land, insomuch that the inhabitants thereof who had not fallen could feel the vapor of darkness;
21 And there could be no light, because of the darkness, neither candles, neither torches; neither could there be fire kindled with their fine and exceedingly dry wood, so that there could not be any light at all;
22 And there was not any light seen, neither fire, nor glimmer, neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the stars, for so great were the mists of darkness which were upon the face of the land.
23 And it came to pass that it did last for the space of three days that there was no light seen; and there was great mourning and howling and weeping among all the people continually; yea, great were the groanings of the people, because of the darkness and the great destruction which had come upon them.
24 And in one place they were heard to cry, saying: O that we had repented before this great and terrible day, and then would our brethren have been spared, and they would not have been burned in that great city ZARAHEMLA…

I'm sorry, but Jesus didn't come to make people "howl" in their own destruction (3 Nephi 8:23)...that wasn't his purpose in coming the first time!

Jesus said: I am come that they might have LIFE, and that they might have it more abundantly. (John 10:10)

Thank you for the explanation, that was interesting.

One of the most remarkable spots on planet Earth for contemplating whatever truths or falsehoods are inherent in Latter Day Saint organizations is the Temple Lot area in Independence, Missouri. There are five prominent buildings within a few hundred yards of each other representing three of the many Latter Day Saint organizations that exist.

The most stunning of them is the Community of Christ's spiral Temple. Unlike Mormon temples, this spiral temple is open to the general public. Its three main attractions are the magnificent sanctuary with its awesome organ, its display of the complete original printer's manuscript of the Book of Mormon, and its library for viewing microfilms of historical church documents.

To the southeast of the Temple is the huge Auditorium, where Community of Christ world conferences are conducted. It has one of the finest organs in the world. I will never forget a performance in the Auditorium of the Organ Symphony of Saint-Saens by the Kansas City Symphony. When that organ joined the orchestra it was awesome.

South of the Temple is the Mormon Visitor's Center, which has museum displays relating to Mormon history and movie theaters for experiencing films relating to Mormon beliefs, history, etc.

West of the Temple is a white frame building that is the headquarters of the Church of Christ (Temple Lot), a small organization that rejects the 1835 Doctrine and Covenenants and uses the incomplete 1833 Book of Commandents instead. They have a few historical items on display.

Northwest of the Temple is the Community of Christ's Stone Church, an historical yet still functioning congregation.

Here are a couple of photos of the Community of Christ Temple:

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