Posted on 05/27/2010 6:44:33 AM PDT by Colofornian
:)
I’ll make it simple for you. See post 380. The reason I think there was an apology is probably because there WAS an apology.
If you and others think it insufficient? Fine. Call Salt Lake.
Cover-Up
The Mormon efforts to cover-up the details and white-wash the massacre continues even today. In March of 2000 the Salt Lake Tribune told of the accidental unearthing of the skeletal remains of at least 29 slain emigrants at Mountain Meadows in Southern Utah. (Salt Lake Tribune, March 13, 2000, p. A1)
Scientists wanted to do a full study of the remains. However, Gov. Mike Leavitt, a descendent of one of the participants of the massacre, encouraged state officials to quickly rebury the remains, EVEN THOUGH THE BASIC SCIENTIFIC ANALYSIS REQUIRED BY STATE LAW WAS UNFINISHED.... the governors intercession was one of many dramas played out last summer, all serving to underscore Mountain Meadows place as the Bermuda Triangle of Utahs historical and theological landscape. The end result may be another sad chapter in the massacres legacy of bitterness, denial and suspicion. (Salt Lake Tribune, March 12, 2000, p. A-1)
A rushed examination of the bones prior to reburial in 2000 showed:
At least five adults had gunshot exit wounds in the posterior area of the cranium a clear indication some were shot while facing their killers....Women also were shot in the head at close range....At least one youngster, believed to be about 10 to 12 years old, was killed by a gunshot to the top of the head. ... Virtually all of the post-cranial (from the head down) bones displayed extensive carnivore damage, confirming written accounts that bodies were left on the killing field to be gnawed by wolves and coyotes. (Salt Lake Tribune, March 13, 2000, p. A-5)
The Salt Lake Tribune quoted the following from Gene Sessions, president of the Mountain Meadows Association:
It raises the old question of whether Brigham Young ordered the massacre and whether Mormons do terrible things because they think their leaders want them to do terrible things. (Salt Lake Tribune, Mar. 14, 2000, p. A-4)
The paper went on to report:
Noted Mormon writer Levi Peterson has tried to explain the difficulty that Mormons and their church face in confronting the atrocity of Mountain Meadows.
If good Mormons committed the massacre, if prayerful leaders ordered it, if apostles and a prophet knew about it and later sacrificed John D. Lee, then the sainthood of even the modern church seems tainted, he has written. Where is the moral superiority of Mormonism, where is the assurance that God has made Mormons his new chosen people? ...
But acknowledging any complicity in Mountain Meadows macabre past is fundamentally problematic for the modern church.
The massacre has left the Mormon Church on the horns of a dilemma, says Utah historian Will Bagley, author of a forthcoming book on Mountain Meadows. It cant acknowledge its historic involvement in a mass murder, and if it cant accept its accountability, it cant repent. (Salt Lake Tribune, March 14, 2000, p. A-4)
http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no98.htm#After%20the%20Massacre
Check date of article. March 2000.
Again, apology made Sept. 12, 2007.
Not a question of whether apology made or not. It WAS.
If you and others deem it insufficient? Fine.
Ok, D whatever you say.
If you and others deem it insufficient? Fine.
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and if the innocent unarmed men women children and tiny babies who were senselessly buthchered that day deem it insufficient ???
Will that be FINE too ???
Their lives were snuffed out...
They were just passing through on their way to a new kife in California ...
some already had homes and farms to go too...
they were conservative Christian Americans, good God fearing folk, traveling through their own country...
and they were set upon and ambushed and treachously betrayed and murdered by religious ritual.....
it was such an act of terrorism it has been deemed the first 9/11..
and for 150 years the mormons covered up the hideous crimes
A criminal “regrets” even “profoundly regrets” that hes been found out and found guilty...
only truly repentant people are SORRY and they make retribution...
To this day there has been no retribution...
None of the the many thousands of dollars stolen was ever paid back, the 1000 head of cattle and the 300 blood hoses not paod for, the 40 good wagans not paid for, the tens of thousands of dollars od ransome money that was paid to the murderer and thief and kidnapper Brigham young was never paid back..all the clothes and house hold belongings were never given back, the fancy carriage that Brigham young stole and drove around in was never given bacvk...
and the 17 children who were stolen away and kidnapped after watching their parents murdered in front of their eyes were not returned until the US government met their kidnappers terms and paid the son of perdition baggard, Brigham Young another $10,000
None of that is FINE...
You really are an ignorant person. At NO time have I tried to justify what happened at Mountain Meadow, nor would I. And you know that. So stop trying to deceive people with your obsessive-compulsive disorder.
I do not wish to be a part of your delusional schemes.
Have you even read the Book of Mormon? In every copy are tesimonies of three witnesses and testimonies of eight witnesses. Are you so ignorant that you don't know that only the three describe in their testimony spiritual experiences? Have you never read the testimony of the eight, which describes purely physical handling, hefting, and visual examination of the writings on the plates?
They never recanted THAT part. But most of them DID recant and say that Smith was either a fallen prophet or not a prophet at all.
Wow! You have just admitted that the testimonies of the 3 and 8 witnesses were never recounted. Then to top it off, you admit that many of them later became disenchanted with the prophet, which would provide ample excuse for their recanting their testimonies. The fact that they did not under those crcumstances only adds to the soberness of their testimonies.
Finally, Richard Lloyd Andersons 1981 book Investigating the Book of Mormon Witnesses is typical LDS faith promoting history and not considered a serious scholarly work.
Again, you have played right into the hands of those who believe that the Book of Mormon is true. Anderson's book is thoroughly researched and documented, and takes into consideration allegations against the witnesses. This leads me to state the obvious: no one hating the Book of Mormon has produced an investigation of the witnesses that is as honest and open-minded as Anderson's, which may end up being the definitive work on the subject, even for those opposed to the Book of Mormon.
Come back and play when you have REAL scholarship to show me.
I have come back, not to play, but to point out the shallowness of your approach. I don't think that you are coming off very well, even to those who hate the Book of Mormon and wish that it did not exist.
BTW, I have read the BoM cover to cover at least 15 times (more than most LDS I know).
When you display such ignorance of the testimonies of the 3 and 8 witnesses, I find it difficult to believe that you have read the Book of Mormon 15 times. Anyone who hates the book as much as you would not want to waste one's time reading it more than once! So I think that you are lying.
What is wrong with it is it is a fanciful story (with WAAAAYYY to many and it came to passes) that tries to pass itself off as a companion to the Bible and will lead many to Hell.
"A fanciful story"? It does not tell one story. It is a compilation of narratives, preachings, letters, dialogues between persons, etc.
Let's see, that makes me 2 for 2.
In your own mind only. How pitiful!
Next subject?
As if all the other Book of Mormon haters are cheering you on as their champion. I don't think that others are satisfied with your high-toned, but incredibly shallow rants. May God lead you to find something good to build up, instead of only wishing to tear down what you have ignorantly designated as evil.
You really are an ignorant person
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Oh that really goes along with
“WE ARE SO SINCERELY AND HUMBLY SORRY”
I do not wish to be part of your delusional schemes. Sell crazy somewhere else.
Ok Bye then
So sorry you have to leave so soon...
Just when we were having fun...
Maybe next time when you can drop into the Religion forum...
Ok then; how about. "With no TEMPLE in which to perform the BLOOD sacrifices, the JEWs have been doing without for about 2000 years.
I promise not to serve GOAT!
But...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WudBfRa0ETw
I hope nothing gets lost in the...
TRANSLATION!
We dont use the word apology, Church spokesman Mark Tuttle told AP reporter Paul Foy. We used profound regret.
Dang!
NOW what to believe??
And there are OTHER books extant that show a bit of, shall we say, a DIFFERENT story.
So that’s where the expression “get your goat” came from.
I remember the episode! TZ was one of the most original shows on TV. Talent is a rare thing indeed.
“...instead of only wishing to tear down what you have ignorantly designated as evil. “
Oh, no. It’s as evil as the day is long.
It denies the God of the Bible and makes him a man who became God. It also demotes him to one of trillions of gods
in the mormonic pantheon of gods.
It denies His son and makes Him into a creature.
It denies the Gospel of Grace and replaces it with works.
It claims to “restore the Church”, while doing all those things.
Pure evil.
Those same witnesses had to run for their lives because Joey Smith and Sydney Rigdon wanted to kill them...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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