Are Mormons Christian? Inquiry into the Church of Latter Day Saints, a peculiarly American Religion

Bible Probe ^

[delacoert]

They teach/have taught: Jesus is not Emmanuel, Adam is God, and Salvation is by Works

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims that the name of the Church was given to Joseph Smith by revelation. However, when Smith first organized the Church in 1830, it was called the "Church of Christ," then four years later the name was changed to the "Church of Latter-day Saints," then in 1838, it was changed again, this time to the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"..

Regardless that Jesus told us "God is Spirit", Mormons reject the unified Trinity and teach that God has a body of flesh and blood. 
 

Most Mormons are good, God fearing people who believe in Christ as the Savior, the Redeemer, the Son of God, the Creator of the earth, and the only source of salvation.  Who can doubt their love for God after sitting through a wonderful Christmas celebration by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir?  What can one make of this?  Yet many of their doctrines are heretical to most Christians.   Most Mormons are good, God-fearing people.  But like Islam, Scientology, and Jehovah Witnesses, Mormonism rejects the Gospel of Jesus -- and therefore these push their members away from the true road to salvation. Jews also reject this.  But as Paul says--Jews have been supernaturally blinded.  Most important, however, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is their personal Savior.

Some say Mormons present a "gendered, married and procreating god" with "a body of flesh and bones."  This despite Jesus telling us God is Spirit. 

Mormons reject the Triune God. 
The Jesus of Mormonism is not co-eternal with the Father and of one substance with the Father, which most Christians believe.

The three persons of the Godhead are, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said:

"But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me."

"baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19)

Mormonism says: Jesus and Satan, like the rest of us, were spirit brothers and sons of God before the spirit of Jesus was given a body by Mary in Bethlehem. The Mormon "Book of Moses" presents Satan and Jesus as contending for the privilege of taking a body of flesh in order to become the redeemer, with Jesus winning the contest. [See Joseph Smith, Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses 4:1-4.]

Mormonism also teaches that Jesus was the physical son of God the Father and Mary, and that there is nothing in His life more than what is attainable by anyone else.
 

However, while Mormonism is based on a biblical belief in Jesus as the Christ, the teachings of Mormonism concerning God and Man (expounded first circa 1840 near the end of Smith's life) extend far beyond the biblical narrative in ways rejected by most traditional Christian churches.  Mormons believe that God the Father is completely separate from Jesus Christ; that God the Father is the father of us all, and of his son, Jesus Christ, and of all the evil spirits, including Satan. Mormons have a creed similar to New Agers.  The LDS did once teach that "We can become Gods like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation."  In Joseph Smith's own words we can become like God  (''what God is").  However, they have apparently changed this teaching in recent years. They now teach: "We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation."

 

• "Mormons won't tell you that all their so-called scriptures such as the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, and even their official 'Mormon Doctrine' statements contradict each other…"
  
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that the reason the Book of Mormon has no maps is because there is not one scrap of archaeological evidence to support it!"
  
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that their prophet Joseph Smith was an ex-Mason who was heavily involved in the occult when he founded Mormonism."
  
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that that "Mormons won't tell you that they encourage visitations from dead relatives from the "spirit world". This is clearly a practice forbidden by God". See Deuteronomy 18:10-12
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that they think "familiar spirits" are good, and that their Book of Mormon has a "familiar spirit".
  
  Leviticus 19:31 says: Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.
  
  Leviticus 20:6
  And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
   
• "Mormons won't tell you that those Mormons who have been through their temples are wearing secret underwear to protect themselves from "evil". This "evil" includes non-Mormons like you and me".
   
• "Mormons won't tell about their secret temple rites at all. If they did, you would spot them as non-Christians immediately."
  
   

See more things "Mormons won't tell you: here
 

 Southern Baptists have called Utah "a stronghold of Satan"

Mormon beliefs are considered to be so far outside the beliefs of most Christians that the Roman Catholic Church, Presbyterians and the United Methodist Church all declared that Mormon converts must be re-baptized, a setback to the Mormon Church's effort to characterize itself as a Christian denomination.  The Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith declared that baptisms in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are "not the baptism that Christ instituted."  The ruling was a departure from the Catholic Church's usual practice of recognizing the baptisms of converts from most other churches. The Vatican held that the Mormon view of the nature of God was too different from Catholicism's.  Southern Baptists have called Utah "a stronghold of Satan".

Statue of Moroni

Jesus told us, there would only be one more revelation of truth that would come after Him. John 14:17, 16:7 & 13 tell us that Jesus said a "Spirit of Truth" (not a man - a Spirit), the Comforter would come after He Himself departed. This Comforter was to guide us "into all truth". So there would then be no truth remaining which would be sealed or hidden. This was Jesus’ way of saying there would be only one more revelation of Truth after him. We know, that this was the Comforter who descended on the apostles gathered together on Pentecost. There have been no others.

According to Mormon tradition, the angel Moroni is the heavenly messenger who first visited Joseph Smith on the night of September 21-22, 1823. Adherents of Latter-day Saint theology believe that Moroni is a prophet who lived in North America in the late 4th century. In 1827, Moroni supposedly delivered golden plates to Joseph Smith, which are the record of Moroni's people -- ancient Americans known as Nephites and Lamanites.  The golden tablets containing the Book of Mormon and magic translation stones were supposedly buried beneath a hill in Palmyra, New York. Since Joseph Smith was the only witness to the appearance of Moroni, and only eight others (all converts rather than disinterested witnesses) claim to have seen the golden plates--there is little to corroborate Smith's story.  Most of these so-called witnesses later left the Mormon Church. Smith says that these valuable plates were lost.   

In the Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, page 164, Brigham Young stated:

"...witnesses of the Book of Mormon who handled the plates and conversed with the angels of God were afterwards left to doubt and to disbelieve that they had ever seen an angel."

A worrisome note smacking of what Jesus was against is that the foundation of the practice of the Mormon church is priesthood authority. Another of Joseph Smiths doctrines was polygamy, a practice that Smith denied publicly but practiced secretly. That doctrine was the obvious downfall of Joseph Smith; he was killed during a shot out in 1844, as a result of the polygamy controversy.

The Book of Mormon shows every indication of being written by a rather uneducated man, who plagiarized most of it from the King James version of the Bible.  Amazing little knowledge of Judaism and 4th-century Judea is noted in the Book of Mormon. This Book of Mormon shares a common denominator with another such contrived book.  Both the Muslim Qu'ran and the Book of Mormon exhibit gross chronological errors.
 

In Galatians 1:6-9 Paul says;

"I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than ye have received, let him be accursed."

Would this mean that Mormons and Masonic Worshipful Masters and other Masonic instructors are under the curse of God?  Don't both of these preach the contrary doctrine that "salvation is by works" - as if they can earn credit points towards earning a celestial reward? This is exactly the wrong reasons for charity work and helping your fellow man/women. Doing it only because of your love for Jesus and obedience to his loving message to "love one another" is the correct motivation - knowing that you are only saved by His grace. Isn't this new Mormon 19th century Doctrine in violation of what Paul speaks of and warns about above?  

Islam and Mormonism have similar roots/leaders.  Both have prophets who made no prophecies, nor showed any sort of divinity, or even divine inspiration.  History has shown that both were opportunists and murdered up to the end, also.  Both taught salvation by works.

Joseph Smith, the opportunist and ex-Mason

Smith went out blazing his gun away - first killing two people
 

Jesus never said a true prophet would appear in the last days. Rather, He said false prophets would arise who would deceive, if possible, the very elect.

 

Why would Joseph Smith pull off the Mormon charade? Let's listen to what another opportunist/cult leader wrote:

Scientology's L. Ron Hubbard declared in the late 1940s: “Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion.”

While present-day Mormons do not worship Joseph Smith, there seems to be evidence that Smith wanted to elevate himself almost to the same level as Jesus Christ.

Josiah Quincy related that when he visited Joseph Smith in 1844, "the prophet put this inquiry: 'Is not here one greater than Solomon, who built a Temple with the treasures of his father David and with the assistance of Huram [sic], King of Tyre? Joseph Smith has built his Temple with no one to aid him in the work.' " (Figures of the Past, as cited in Among the Mormons, p. 138)

    The History of the Church contains some statements which seem to show that Joseph Smith felt he was almost equal with God:

 "God made Aaron to be the mouth piece for the children of Israel, and He will make me be god to you in His stead, and the Elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it, you must lump it." (vol. 6, pp.319-320)

 

Mormons want you to believe their "prophet", Joseph Smith was martyred:

In 1838, when Oliver Cowdery accused Joseph Smith of adulterous affairs, Joseph had Oliver excommunicated. The controversy over polygamy was the underlying reason for the death of Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum. William Law's wife had confessed that she had an affair with Joseph. William Law left the Church and started a publication called "Nauvoo Expositor." One issue was published and the second one was going to print when Joseph found out that William Law was going to print his wife's confession in that issue. Joseph had the press destroyed and the building burned. That caused his arrest and, consequently, his death.

Writing about Joseph Smith, the Mormon church "Prophet" and founder --John Taylor, third president of the Church of Latter Day Saints wrote in the "Gospel Kingdom," page 360:

"Joseph opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive times... afterwards (I) understood that two or three were wounded by these discharges, two of whom, I am informed, died."

The same account is also in the History of the Church, vol. 6, p. XLI and pages 617-618. 

It was too bad that Joseph Smith was thus killed, but he did not die like a martyr who went "as a lamb to the slaughter" as is claimed by the LDS Church. HE DIED IN A GUNFIGHT, and killed two people before he was shot. Joseph acted as a Mason at the time of his death. John Taylor tells also that Joseph went to the window and made a Masonic distress sign after his gun was empty, hoping that Masons, if there were any among this mob, would rescue him, according to the Masonic oath "to defend one another, right or wrong."

How Joseph Smith died - in a blazing gunfight:

After a brief struggle--during which Joseph Smith, who had armed himself with a smuggled pepperbox revolver, reached around the doorjamb and fired all six chambers--Hyrum fired through the door and was struck in the face by a mobber's bullet. He was hit by three more shots and died. Joseph leaped to the window, where he became an excellent target for those outside as well as the intruders on the stairway. Two shots from the doorway struck him in the back; a third, fired from the ground outside, penetrated his chest. "O Lord. My God!" he screamed, and plunged to earth.

The Mormon Temple Ceremony compares quite exactly with the Masonic Ceremony; signs, tokens and penalties included. Joseph, Hyrum, Brigham, and others, were Masons. Many Cult experts consider the Masonic religion to be a Satanic Cult. 

Six weeks after Joseph Smith and other Mormons were expelled from the Masonic order, Joseph Smith introduced the Masonic ceremony as the temple ceremony "received as a revelation from God." When Dr. Reed Durham, director of LDS Institute of Religion, made his discovery of this in 1974, and gave his speech on the subject of the Mormon-Mason connection in front of the Utah History Association on April 20, 1974, he was highly criticized for making this matter public. He also showed the Jupiter talisman and explained that Joseph had had it from 1826 (the same year he was convicted on money-digging charges and being a believer in magic), and that Joseph had this Jupiter talisman on him at the time of his death.

Brigham Young had claimed that God Himself had revealed this doctrine to him. Brigham also had claimed that his sermons were "as good as scripture" (J. of D., vol. 13, p. 166).

See more about the "doorway to satanism", known as Masonry here

Latter Day Saints (LDS) Lies about Jesus in trying to make Polygamy (many wives) acceptable:

Joseph Fielding Smith, who was the president of the LDS Church in 1970's, said, in an answer to a question: "Was Jesus married?" - "Yes, but do not throw pearls to the swine!" We can clearly see that the LDS church still mistakenly believes that Jesus was married, even a polygamist, but doesn't want to "throw pearls to the swine" or to reveal this to non-Mormons. 

The leaders of the LDS Church have also taught that their Jesus was married and had children, and that he was even a polygamist. Apostle Orson Pratt, in his book, The Seer, page 172, says:

"...the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion was a Polygamist...the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approved the plurality of Wives under Christian dispensation.

Joseph Smith taught that a man who took ten wives with him to heaven had ten times as much chance of becoming God of his own planet than a man who took only one wife. It is said that Joseph’s own adventure with plural marriage began with Fannie Alger. Oliver Cowdery, who at one time was second in command of the Mormon Church, called Joseph’s relation with Fannie Alger, at that time about eighteen, “a dirty, nasty, filthy affair.”

The government of the Mormon Church is a monarchical style of administration.  The head of the church, the “President,” is assisted by apostles and other General Authorities.  The President  makes all appointments and decisions of the church. The President of the church is not elected by church members, but assumes power strictly by seniority (as an apostle) as the oldest apostle.

Exactly like Muhammad of Islam, Joseph Smith had a knack for coming up with "miraculous", timely and convenient revelations that benefited himself:

Emma Hale Smith

Evidence that Joseph Smith was probably nothing other than an uninspired man and a charlatan can be found in the way he (like Muhammad of Islam) received "miraculous", timely and convenient revelations that suited his own personal life.  Joseph Smith was an advocate of plural marriage.  Below is a timely and convenient "revelation" which Joseph Smith said he miraculously received from God admonishing his own wife Emma Smith who was against polygamy:

Reference for the below:  "Doctrine and Covenants, 1981, 132:51-56"

"Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice. And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God. For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him. And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law. But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the eternal worlds. And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid forgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against Me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to rejoice. 

Early LDS President, Brigham Young Taught that Adam is God:

He said; "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize the world. He is Michael, the Arc-angel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken - HE IS OUR FATHER AND OUR GOD, AND THE ONLY GOD WITH WHOM WE HAVE TO DO. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later... the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost." Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, pp. 50-51.

in the Millenial Star, vol. 17, page 195, we read:

"... every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess that he (Adam) is God of the whole earth. Then will the words of the prophet Brigham Young, WHEN SPEAKING OF ADAM, be fully realized - 'HE IS OUR FATHER AND OUR GOD, AND THE ONLY GOD WITH WHOM WE HAVE TO DO.'"

Further in the Millenial Star, vol. 16, page 530, we read the counsel by James A. Little: "I believe in the principal of obedience; and if I am told that Adam is our Father and our God, I just believe it." The records show that there were only two leaders in the Church who had difficulty with this doctrine, namely apostles Orson Pratt and Amasa Lyman. In one of Brigham's sermons, printed in the "Deseret News," June 14, 1873, Brigham declared:

"How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and WHICH GOD REVEALED TO ME - namely that ADAM IS OUR FATHER AND GOD... Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him. He brought one of his wives with him. Who is he? He is Michael... He was the first man on the earth, and its framer and maker. He with the help of his brethren brought it into existence."
 

They worship a different God and a different Jesus

In the (Mormon) Temple ceremony, Michael, the Archangel, is one of the creators of the world and he then "becomes" Adam. According to Mormonism, "GODS" created the world, (see Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 4 and 5), Adam being one of them, one of three gods. It is clearly implied that he is God. There are more writings and documented evidence to this fact.
Brigham has emphasized that Jesus was not begotten by the Holy Ghost, as he falsely says the Bible says. This teaching shows that Jesus of the LDS Church is not "Emmanuel," "God with us;" God, who, according to the Bible (Matt. 1:23), became a man for us, to be our Redeemer. Jesus of the LDS Church is a created being, who also had to be redeemed...

This "Gods created the world" concept by Mormonism is a corruption of Genesis 1:26 which to mainline Christian Churches is taken to be the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.  Not Adam!
 

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  Genesis 1:26

Mormons think that Jesus's Atonement is not Sufficient:
Young and later Mormon apostles and presidents taught that the blood of Christ was not sufficient to cover all sins. However, by having their blood spilled on the ground, the guilty could make atonement for their own sins and obtain a better salvation at the resurrection. What sort of sins did Young and others consider beyond the reach of Christ’s forgiveness? Various Mormon documents mention murder, adultery, whoredom, stealing, lying, marrying or having sexual intercourse with a Negro, and apostasy.

Most information for the above article is taken from ex-Mormon's words and in-depth study..... 

Mormons are Masters of the double-speak - and like Muhammad of Islam, the timely "Revelation"....

Although the Mormon leadership, through a "revelation" in 1978, did allow black males to be ordained, it has not changed passages in its scripture teaching that "a skin of blackness" is a curse from God.  The double-speak about "a skin of blackness" is such as Mr. Ostling writes in "Mormon America" that the references pertain to American Indians, rather than African-Americans. 

Muhammad's made up Qur'an says this and more about blacks:  Muslims are told that Africans “annoy the Prophet” (Ishaq 243), have hearts “grosser than a donkey” (Surah 9:61) Read more at "Black Muslims" here
 

Also Read: "An Ex-Mormon Makes a Lot of Sense...."

Two obstacles must be overcome in understanding Mormon doctrine. The first is historical. Because of changes brought about through ongoing revelation, Mormon doctrine is inconsistent and even self-contradictory. The 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon initially remained doctrinally close to orthodoxy. It declared God to be one, to be spirit, and to be unchangeable in his decrees. Christ was presented as a divine being who is one with the Father. It declared polygamy abominable and commended monogamy as the rule for marriage. Salvation was said to consist of repentance, baptism, remission of sins, and the reception of the Spirit. The unsaved were thought to have no second chance for salvation after death. Yet within a few years, Joseph Smith changed his mind about each of these doctrines. Subsequent Mormon seers and revelators have made additional changes.

The Planet Kolob....

The second obstacle in understanding Mormonism is language. Mormons radically redefine traditional Christian terminology to fit their altered doctrine. It is extremely important to bear this in mind when talking with a Mormon. The God of Mormonism is not the God of Christianity, but a finite, resurrected man with a physical body who lives on the planet Kolob. The Christ of Mormonism is not the Christ of Christianity, but the literal spiritual and physical son of God. Mormons call Christ their elder brother believing that, like themselves, his spirit was begotten celestially by God through intercourse with a heavenly mother. They believe Christ’s incarnation resulted from God having sexual intercourse with Mary.

"And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it;  And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that (the earth) upon which thou standest."  Pearl of Great Price 3:2-3

When Mormons speak of being born again, they do not mean spiritual regeneration but baptism into the Mormon church. Salvation is not redemption from sin or spiritual death but the overcoming of physical death. According to Mormon theology, the atonement wrought by Christ merely reversed the penalty of physical death caused by Adam’s fall. Salvation, in the form of resurrection and immortality, is thereby guaranteed for all.

 

Jesus told us "God is Spirit"
Mormons contradict Jesus and tell us God is "flesh & bones"
 

President Joseph Fielding Smith (10th President of the LDS Church) made the following statement:
 

“We accept these three personages as the supreme governing council in the heavens. The Father and the Son have tabernacles of flesh and bones, and the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit. We worship the Father in the name of the son who is the Mediator between God and man, and his is the only name given whereby man can be saved. We accept Jesus as the Only Begotten Son of the Father in the flesh, although we are all his offspring in the spirit, and therefore his children.”

 

[Tennessee Nana]

Blood atonement, blood letting, “using up”, the Danites, anyone ???

The Mountain Meadows Massacre

The Bear River Massacre

The Circleville Massacre

Mormon bishop Warren Snow and Thomas Lewis, 1857

Mormon temple ceremony on blood oaths against the US government...

Mormon temple ceremony on blood oaths against all non-mormons...

Briggy Young sermons on blood letting of non-mormons in order to “save” them...

Joey Smith and his 40+ mistresses Joey Smith and his bank scam and fraud....Phony $3 bills...

Joey Smith and his pedophilia....14 year old girls

Joey Smith and his burning down of a newspaper office

Joey Smith and his open air rants and boasts that he was greater than Jesus..

The mormon doctrine that only males who have multiple “wives” get to go to “heaven”

Joey Smith and his bar where he sold booze to his mormon friends...

Briggy Youngs large and prosperous brewery that he stole off another mormon..

Briggy Youngs many “wives” that he built Texas compound like dormitories to house, right in the middle of Salt lake City..

$4 BILLION shopping malls..

Multi million dollar resorts...

Multi million dollar exclusive mormon clubs called “temples”

Pyramid scams..

Ponzi scams..

Racism

relifious bigotry

sexism

D&C 132

and so on..

Ah yes...

“the public behavior and publicly demonstrated values of the Mormon”

[Tennessee Nana]

Good luck with stopping the stone cut without hands!
_____________________________________________

Yeah well that “rolling stone” met up with the Rock...

And the Rock made flint of the “rolling stone”

[restornu]

You know darn well reaganaut it was never LDS doctrine only an opinion of BY.

“This is an old question. It was asked of the Prophet Joseph Smith and answered by him. He writes in his journal, “This morning . . . I visited with a brother and sister from Michigan, who thought that ‘a prophet is always a prophet’; but I told them that a prophet is a prophet only when he was acting as such” (Joseph Smith, _History of the Church_, 5:265).

“That statement makes a clear distinction between official and unofficial actions and utterances of officers of the Church. In this recorded statement the Prophet Joseph Smith recognizes his special right and duty, as the President and Prophet of the Church, under the inspiration of the Lord, to speak authoritatively and officially for the enlightenment and guidance of the Church.

But he claims also the right, as other men, to labor and rest, to work and play, to visit and discuss, to present his opinions and hear the opinion of others, to counsel and bless as a member of the Church

[Tennessee Nana]

I’d rather have one of the fine Mormon’s I’ve known backing me on a patrol
_____________________________________________

Sure

We’ll send over the two time draft dodging Williard Mitt Romney...

[ejonesie22]

Do you really want to go there again (or yet again) Resty!?!?

Page 55 of the LDS Church manual entitled "Gospel Principles" reads, "In addition to these four books of scripture, the inspired words of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, Church publications, and instructions to local priesthood leaders."

Are you saying the Brigham Young was not a prophet and leader of the LDS?

Bet the Board of BYU would like to know that....

[killermedic]

Like I said, I am sure that you have only the most respectful and loving of intentions with your crusade against The LDS People. personal attacks, condescending attitudes, and other forms of derision are only weakening your arguments. Gainsaying will only ultimately promote our cause just as the anti-nazarenes in Christ’s time promoted the truth inadvertently then as well. The stone cut without hands is still rolling despite your efforts here.
Wish I could continue the fun but work is beckoning. a puppy picture would have been nice. Have a great day!

[killermedic]

I didn’t know that Christ would stop his own gospel from coming into the world... you always entertain with your extreme (and out of context) examples though.

[Godzilla]

You know darn well reaganaut it was never LDS doctrine only an opinion of BY.

Yet it was TAUGHT by the PROPHET Young as DOCTRINE. If it was his OPINION, then Young was a FALSE PROPHET since he taught it as a REVELATION from GOD. By teaching FALSE DOCTRINE he mislead the mormon sheeples, and the paper trail of Young's DOCTRINAL teachings of this make it clear - he was acting as a PROPHET when he did it.

[ejonesie22]

Actually from looking at what we see here and on the Internet the stone has slowed to a crawl. The Internet is doing a lot of the work for Christ against those who would distort his name as well.

The LDS is having a truth crisis, and in turn a membership crisis, and as result a lot of souls are saved or at least given a new lease on life.

As far as condescending attitudes, we would have a lot of ground to cover to reach the proficiency that the LDS masters have achieved since Joe Smith condemned all of Christendom as whores and such. So we really don't try that. We just state the truth and return a little of the LDS approved snarkyness best we can...

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Are Mormons Christian? Inquiry into the Church of Latter Day Saints, a peculiarly American Religion

Not if they believe in the mormon jesus, who is simply another created being who worked his way to godhood in the great mormonic pantheon of trillions of gods.

Not if they believe in more than one God.

Can any mormon turn to the real God of the Bible and the
Real Biblical Christ and become a Christian? ABSOLUTELY.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***What ever happened to “love thy neighbor?”***

Christians are not the ones who started this fight back about 1829 when J Smith walked out of the woods claiming all churches were wrong and only HE had the truth and we had better obey him or else HE would stand in the door to heaven and keep out all those who didn’t have a pass from him.

He threw down the gauntlet and the Christians picked it up.

[ejonesie22]

He didn't. His Gospel is the Rock that is making flint out of Smith's little false gospel stone as it runs out of steam in the modern information age.

Nana is dead on, and it is happening at an ever quickening pace.

[svcw]

Well apparently I did not write s l o w l y enough. I will repeat what I wrote:

not anti-Mormon anti-MormonISM.

[restornu]

Do you really want to go there again (or yet again) Resty!?!?

***

Yes I will go there because you are having a hard time understanding!

Unless it is a consensus by the 12 it is not LDS doctrine there may be spoken in GF words that is inspiring to those in their personal situation that have meaning but not always collectively!

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Lets not forget the MORRISITE MASSACRE. Mormons killing Mormons to see whose “prophet” was right.

[Godzilla]

Unless it is a consensus by the 12 it is not LDS doctrine there may be spoken in GF words that is inspiring to those in their personal situation that have meaning but not always collectively!

So much for "follow the prophet, he will NEVER lead you astray" as he can teach FALSE teachings and FALSE doctrines without rebuke. lsd needs to go back and revise their sales pitch then and remove the 'living' prophet portions.

[ejonesie22]

But as Godzilla point out, BY taught this as Doctrine.

You own rule book says such is Scripture, it is doctrine, it is fact.

Sorry, you can click your heels together all you want and wish it away, but the facts cannot change no matter how many rugs the LDS keep trying to sweep the past under...

[Tennessee Nana]

Oh let me explain about mormon bishop Warren Snow and what he did to young Thomas Lewis...

In Utah in 1857, Thomas Lewis was a 24 year old mormon man who was engaged to marry the girl he loved...the pretty girl loved him back tand they were looking forward to their wedding day...

It just so happened that a mormon bishop named Warren Snow had several “wives” but wanted the young bride-to-be also...

(As Heber C Kimball, a member of the mormon on first presidency, who had at least 45 “wives” said “Taking another wife is just like buying another cow”)

Snow did what his mormon bishopric position gave him the “right” and the “authority” to do...He ordered Thomas to give up his fiance to Snow..Thomas refused...

Next the mormon bishop went to the girl and demanded her to become his extra “wife” instead of being the only wife of Thomas...the girl refused saying she loved only thomas...

So Snow continued to lust after the girl to the point that he had Thomas kiddnapped and he castrated the young man so that he could not marry his sweetheart...(there were other occurances of castration in mormon history besides this one. Joey Smith started the horrible practice in Nauvoo)

In the words of John D Lee...

“I knew of many men being killed in Nauvoo... and I know of many a man who was quietly put out of the way by the orders of Joseph and his Apostles while the Church was there.” (Ibid., page 284) Lee also revealed another very cruel practice which took place both in Nauvoo, Illinois, and in early Utah:

“In Utah it has been the custom with the Priesthood to make eunuchs of such men as were obnoxious to the leaders. This was done for a double purpose: first, it gave a perfect revenge, and next, it left the poor victim a living example to others of the dangers of disobeying counsel and not living as ordered by the Priesthood.

“In Nauvoo it was the orders from Joseph Smith and his apostles to beat, wound and castrate all Gentiles that the police could take in the act of entering or leaving a Mormon household under circumstances that led to the belief that they had been there for immoral purposes.... In Utah it was the favorite revenge of old, worn-out members of the Priesthood, who wanted young women sealed to them, and found that the girl preferred some handsome young man. The old priests generally got the girls, and many a young man was unsexed for refusing to give up his sweetheart at the request of an old and failing, but still sensual apostle or member of the Priesthood. As an illustration... Warren Snow was Bishop of the Church at Manti, San Pete County, Utah. He had several wives, but there was a fair, buxom young woman in the town that Snow wanted for a wife.... She thanked him for the honor offered, but told him she was then engaged to a young man, a member of the Church, and consequently could not marry the old priest.... He told her it was the will of God that she should marry him, and she must do so; that the young man could be got rid of, sent on a mission or dealt with in some way... that, in fact, a promise made to the young man was not binding, when she was informed that it was contrary to the wishes of the authorities.

“The girl continued obstinate.... the authorities called on the young man and directed him to give up the young woman. This he steadfastly refused to do.... He remained true to his intended, and said he would die before he would surrender his intended wife to the embraces of another.... The young man was ordered to go on a mission to some distant locality... But the mission was refused...

“It was then determined that the rebellious young man must be forced by harsh treatment to respect the advice and orders of the Priesthood. His fate was left to Bishop Snow for his decision. He decided that the young man should be castrated; Snow saying, ‘When that is done, he will not be liable to want the girl badly, and she will listen to reason when she knows that her lover is no longer a man.’

“It was then decided to call a meeting of the people who lived true to counsel, which was held in the school-house in Manti... The young man was there, and was again requested, ordered and threatened, to get him to surrender the young woman to Snow, but true to his plighted troth, he refused to consent to give up the girl. The lights were then put out. An attack was made on the young man. He was severely beaten, and then tied with his back down on a bench, when Bishop Snow took a bowie-knife, and performed the operation in a most brutal manner, and then took the portion severed from his victim and hung it up in the school-house on a nail, so that it could be seen by all who visited the house afterwards.

“The party then left the young man weltering in his blood, and in a lifeless condition. During the night he succeeded in releasing himself from his confinement, and dragged himself to some hay-stacks, where he lay until the next day, when he was discovered by his friends. The young man regained his health, but has been an idiot or quite lunatic ever since....

“After this outrage old Bishop Snow took occasion to get up a meeting... When all had assembled, the old man talked to the people about their duty to the Church, and their duty to obey counsel, and the dangers of refusal, and then publicly called attention to the mangled parts of the young man, that had been severed from his person, and stated that the deed had been done to teach the people that the counsel of the Priesthood must be obeyed. To make a long story short, I will say, the young woman was soon after forced into being sealed to Bishop Snow.

“Brigham Young... did nothing against Snow. He left him in charge as Bishop at Manti, and ordered the matter to be hushed up.”

(Confessions of John D. Lee, 1877 Ed., Pp 284-286)

Mormons today would be appalled if such a dastardly deed was committed and would demand that the persons responsible be severely punished. Brigham Young, however, approved of many violent acts perpetrated by those he put in authority. Interestingly, D. Michael Quinn found documented evidence showing that President Young supported Bishop Warren S. Snow’s cruel mistreatment of the young man:

“In the midsummer of 1857 Brigham Young also expressed approval for an LDS bishop who had castrated a man. In May 1857 Bishop Warren S. Snow’s counselor wrote that twenty-four-year-old Thomas Lewis ‘has now gone crazy’ after being castrated by Bishop Snow for an undisclosed sex crime. When informed of Snow’s action, Young said: ‘I feel to sustain him...’ In July Brigham Young wrote a reassuring letter to the bishop about this castration: ‘Just let the matter drop, and say no more about it,’ the LDS president advised, ‘and it will soon die away among the people.’ “ (The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power, Vol. 2, pages 250-251)

“the public behavior and publicly demonstrated values of the Mormon.”

[restornu]

It does not surprised me that you are having a hard time or unable to receive!

[RnMomof7]

They are hungry for legitimacy that only the triune God can give