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Give Your All To . . . ? . . . . [A Rel Forum Research thread--Open]
Bible, Vultus Christi, Quix's noggin ^ | 28 APR 2010; 30 APR 2010 | Jesus, Mark Kirby & Quix

Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix

GIVE IT ALL TO . . . ? . . . .

--A Research Thread--

. . .

.

7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this:

Our Father in heaven,
may your name be kept holy.
10 May your Kingdom come soon.
May your will be done on earth,
as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today the food we need,[a]
12 and forgive us our sins,
as we have forgiven those who sin against us.
13 And don’t let us yield to temptation,[b]
but rescue us from the evil one.[c]

--New Living Translation

7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.]

8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.

9Pray, therefore, like this:

Our Father Who is in heaven, hallowed (kept holy) be Your name.
10Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us this day our daily bread.
12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven ([e]left, remitted, and let go of the debts, and have [f]given up resentment against) our debtors.
13And lead (bring) us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14For if you forgive people their trespasses [their [g]reckless and willful sins, [h]leaving them, letting them go, and [i]giving up resentment], your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses.

--Amplified

Pray with Simplicity

5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat?

6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace.

7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this:

Our Father in heaven,
Reveal who you are.
Set the world right;
Do what's best— as above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals.
Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!
You can do anything you want!
You're ablaze in beauty!
Yes. Yes. Yes.

14-15"In prayer there is a connection between what God does and what you do. You can't get forgiveness from God, for instance, without also forgiving others. If you refuse to do your part, you cut yourself off from God's part.

16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well.
--THE MESSAGE

Mark Kirby:

O Mother of Good Counsel,
Mother of Perpetual Help,
I turn with confidence to thy maternal Heart,
and I renew my total and irrevocable consecration to thee.

I am all thine, Most Holy Mary,
and all that I have is thine.
I give thee my past with its burdens.
I give thee this present moment with its anxieties and fears.
I give thee my future and all that it holds.

There is no part of my life that is not open to thee,
no place so secret, or so darkened by sin
that thy presence and thy influence
are not wholly and ardently desired there.

I want to be completely transparent with thee,
utterly simple, guileless, and childlike.
Thou knowest, O Mother,
all my preoccupations,
all my intentions,
and all those recommended to my prayer.
Take them, I beseech thee, to thy Immaculate Heart
and, as my Advocate, my all-powerful intercessor, and my Mediatrix,
present them to thy Son.
Seeing them presented by thee
and held in thy maternal Heart,
there is nothing that He will not do
to give to each intention the one response
worthy of the infinite mercy and love of His Sacred Heart.

Praying in this way, I can be at rest,
for thou art my Mother,
and all that I entrust to thee will be,
I am sure,
received, and considered, and cared for
with a Mother's love.
Amen.

.

.

.


TOPICS: Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicbashing; exclusivity; focus; holiness; marybashing; worship
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To: HarleyD
It is our duty for us to get to know God.

We only need to ask, seek and knock.

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. - Matt 7:7-8

To God be the glory, not man, never man.

1,941 posted on 05/04/2010 10:37:59 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Mad Dawg; metmom
So, looking at the logic, Saying "if you are not in the body you are not saved" is NOT the same as saying If you are in the body you are saved.

I like logic problems like this. :) So, are you saying that they are different because the first does not imply the second? That is, the first leaves room for the possibility that some who are in the body are nevertheless not saved, whereas the second precludes this possibility.

1,942 posted on 05/04/2010 11:48:49 PM PDT by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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To: Mad Dawg; 1000 silverlings
Which is greater, the Jack Daniels bottle or the Jack Daniels?

Ah, but isn't there an old hillbilly proverb that says: "Jack Daniels is found in no other bottle, for there is no other bottle under heaven given to men by which we may drink Jack Daniels.”? Kinda puts a different spin on the analogy? :)

1,943 posted on 05/05/2010 12:12:46 AM PDT by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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To: MarkBsnr

Shall I prove to you again, Mark, that your understanding of the Gospels is negligible?


1,944 posted on 05/05/2010 12:35:42 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Mad Dawg; HarleyD
There are many rich in the grace of saving faith who are not called to teach or to expound on their faith because they lack some of the tricks of wit and imagination and some of the verbal skills to give a good account of Him in whom they place their trust.

Anyone who thinks Harley was advocating "wit" and "imagination" as requirements to knowing God has clearly not understood his post.

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear" -- 1 Peter 3:15

1,945 posted on 05/05/2010 12:43:16 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Alamo-Girl
We only need to ask, seek and knock.

AMEN!

1,946 posted on 05/05/2010 12:44:30 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: MarkBsnr

“ALL translations of Scripture have Jesus Christ giving Peter the keys to Heaven”.

Actually...no they do not. A common misreading but a misreading nonetheless.


1,947 posted on 05/05/2010 1:44:23 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Mad Dawg; editor-surveyor; metmom; Dr. Eckleburg
God is Truth, so nothing about Him can be a lie nor anything He does or says. His Word is Truth.

His effable nature is Holy, and it is not the perfection of one attribute of His nature that makes Him holy. His attributes are mercy, wisdom, compassion, knowledge, beauty,judgment etc.

1,948 posted on 05/05/2010 2:29:22 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: Forest Keeper

You have to make them define “body” .


1,949 posted on 05/05/2010 2:34:13 AM PDT by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: Alamo-Girl

EXCELLENT EXAMPLE.

THX.


1,950 posted on 05/05/2010 4:24:00 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Alamo-Girl

THX FOR YOUR KIND REPLY.


1,951 posted on 05/05/2010 4:26:16 AM PDT by Quix (BLOKES who got us where we R: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2130557/posts?page=81#81)
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To: Forest Keeper

Hi FK!Long time no yap!

Yeah. Incidentally I am not commenting (here) on the truth of either proposition. My point is ONLY that “If NOT A then NOT B,” is NOT equivalent to “If A then B.” “If NOT a rectangle then NOT a Square” is NOT Equivalent to “IF a rectangle then a square.”


1,952 posted on 05/05/2010 4:57:06 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Resurrexit* sicut dixit. Alleluia)
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To: boatbums

It was because the initial poster was very, ah, vigorous in attacking what she thought were the errors of logic in the other person’s post that I thought, “Okay, we are doing strict logic, are we? Then let us do it strictly.”


1,953 posted on 05/05/2010 5:01:16 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Resurrexit* sicut dixit. Alleluia)
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To: MarkBsnr; RnMomof7
Interesting , Pauls writings are very clear..IMHO

Peter disagreed with you.

Paul's writings are pretty clear to me as well...And conversely, you guys admit that Paul's writings are pretty hard for you to understand...Paul doesn't make much sense...He's insane...

I'd suggest you go back and re-read a little more slowly what Peter wrote

1,954 posted on 05/05/2010 5:04:42 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Forest Keeper
Kinda puts a different spin on the analogy? :)

I think if we study the problem any more enthusiastically the room will be spinning.

I THINK I was getting called to account for the notion of Mary as dispenser of Grace because she is the, ahem, dispenser of Jesus [see note below], with a suggestion or, as Art Carney would say, incineration that that must make Mary greater than IHS. So, therefore the question about the ranking of containers and things contained.

[Note: No, I am NOT going to try calling the Ol' Mizris the 'dispenser' of our child.]

1,955 posted on 05/05/2010 5:07:51 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Resurrexit* sicut dixit. Alleluia)
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To: wagglebee
Got it, ALL translations of Scripture have Jesus Christ giving Peter the keys to Heaven and, surprise, surprise, Protestants have figured out a way to say that this wasn't all that significant.

It's very significant...But it doesn't say nor mean what you claim it says...In order to understand the scriptures, you have to read the scripture and quit leaving parts of the verses out, or stop putting words into the verses...

You could even take it a little further and claim that Jesus gave Peter Heaven...Or maybe you want to go the other route and claim that Jesus gave Peter the keys to His Jaguar in Heaven...

But what the scripture ACTUALLY says that Jesus gave Peter the keys to the KINGDOM of Heaven...Now why is that significant??? Because the Kingdom of Heaven is NOT Heaven...Just as the Kingdom of God is NOT God...

1,956 posted on 05/05/2010 5:18:35 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: 1000 silverlings
[All the stuff you say about God, and]His effable nature is Holy

"effable"? Not playing gotcha, just asking.

Clearly I agree, with possible quibbles around the edges, but I don't think there are any.

To MOI (everybody else's mileage may vary) the critical point is :

Whether the impossibility of God's lying a DISability or lack of some kind.

Objection:It would SEEM to be a disability, because we can imagine situations in which being able to tell a really persuasive lie would seem to be a good, a positive thing.

Sed contra: (stop me if you've heard this one before) The psalmist says, He does whatever pleases Him.

I answer that: In God there is no lack, no disability. It is only a manner of loose speech which presents the possibility of doing evil -- in this example of swerving from the truth -- as a positive ability.

And even in our own lives we find that speaking the truth requires knowledge and wisdom, as well courage and other virtues in differing situations. We may think that telling a really plausible lie is a 'gift' or a positive ability -- right up until the day we resolve to try to speak only the truth in love. Then we find that we are, as it were, addicted to putting our own spin on reality.

And this is not even to mention the painstaking task of find out all the lies we tell ourselves to get through the day.

Formally: Man pursues what he thinks to be good. He fails in the pursuit because of failing to know what is good AND because of lacking the strength and purity of will to choose effectively the good.

Reply to the objection: There is no such thing as an existent which is perfectly evil, since existence itself is a good. Similarly there is no perfectly evil act, as such. A particular sin involves faculties and powers which are good in themselves but which are, in the event, misdirected and perverted in their relationship to one another.

Also, reaching ultimate good may involve intermediate steps which appear evil, and the avoidance of which, for the time being, can be accomplished by an evil, like lying.

Therefore a capacity to sin may APPEAR to be an ability, since it involves goods (albeit misdirected and perverted) and seems to lead to goods (temporary evasion, for example, of the consequences of hitting the baseball through Mr. Wilson's window.) But this appearance is illusory.

Therefor the impossibility of God's lying is not a defect but a strength. And therefore it is more precise to say, It is impossible for God to lie," than to say "God cannot lie."

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitperson ... and try the veal: it's delicious.
1,957 posted on 05/05/2010 5:32:11 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Quia quem meruisti* portare, Alleluia // Resurrexit* sicut dixit. Alleluia)
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To: Mad Dawg

Sounds like we have an Aquinas in the house-:)

Very Nice!


1,958 posted on 05/05/2010 5:38:22 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi
Thank you!

I'm not a scholastic, but I play one on FR.

1,959 posted on 05/05/2010 5:41:12 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Quia quem meruisti* portare, Alleluia // Resurrexit* sicut dixit. Alleluia)
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To: Iscool
But what the scripture ACTUALLY says that Jesus gave Peter the keys to the KINGDOM of Heaven...Now why is that significant??? Because the Kingdom of Heaven is NOT Heaven...Just as the Kingdom of God is NOT God...

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

It says *whatever* not *whoever*. It doesn't say that He gave man, any man, the ability to determine who enters heaven or who doesn't.

1,960 posted on 05/05/2010 5:55:05 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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