Posted on 04/30/2010 8:03:48 AM PDT by Quix
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7 “When you pray, don’t babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered merely by repeating their words again and again. 8 Don’t be like them, for your Father knows exactly what you need even before you ask him! 9 Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, --New Living Translation 7And when you pray, do not heap up phrases (multiply words, repeating the same ones over and over) as the Gentiles do, for they think they will be heard for their much speaking. [I Kings 18:25-29.] 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 9Pray, therefore, like this: 15But if you do not forgive others their trespasses [their [j]reckless and willful sins, [k]leaving them, letting them go, and [l]giving up resentment], neither will your Father forgive you your trespasses. --Amplified Pray with Simplicity 5"And when you come before God, don't turn that into a theatrical production either. All these people making a regular show out of their prayers, hoping for stardom! Do you think God sits in a box seat? 6"Here's what I want you to do: Find a quiet, secluded place so you won't be tempted to role-play before God. Just be there as simply and honestly as you can manage. The focus will shift from you to God, and you will begin to sense his grace. 7-13"The world is full of so-called prayer warriors who are prayer-ignorant. They're full of formulas and programs and advice, peddling techniques for getting what you want from God. Don't fall for that nonsense. This is your Father you are dealing with, and he knows better than you what you need. With a God like this loving you, you can pray very simply. Like this: 16-18"When you practice some appetite-denying discipline to better concentrate on God, don't make a production out of it. It might turn you into a small-time celebrity but it won't make you a saint. If you 'go into training' inwardly, act normal outwardly. Shampoo and comb your hair, brush your teeth, wash your face. God doesn't require attention-getting devices. He won't overlook what you are doing; he'll reward you well. |
Mark Kirby: O Mother of Good Counsel, I am all thine, Most Holy Mary, There is no part of my life that is not open to thee, I want to be completely transparent with thee, Praying in this way, I can be at rest, |
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“975 “We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ” (Paul VI, CPG # 15).
971 “All generations will call me blessed”: “The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship.”513 The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs.... This very special devotion ... differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.”514 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary
www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM “
New Eve? Eve died as a rebel against God's rule, put out of Eden, condemned to death. Paul sad she was thoroughly deceived. New Eve indeed.
lol. Your question was answered.
“God, from whom all blessings flow.”
No blessings flow from Mary.
And thanks for affording me so many opportunities to restate that Scriptural truth.
And I do think the people who know us best are the ones we should ask. That is why I recommended asking friends.
To God be the glory, not man, never man!
They just make this stuff up as they go along.
AGREED.
Though I also believe, practice and teach
that we do well to also ask one or two folks who frequently disagree with us.
It’s in the catechism so it’s Official Made-Up.
Prayers to Msry IS worship of Mary, a no no by all means.Conflating words, even misspelled, isn't much of an argument.
Indeed, clearly neither have you. “Doctor”! LOL.
Presbyterians did not get their name from Rome. As you then went on to point out, Paul wrote about the structuring of the early church via presbyters and synods.
Scripture is the source of the name of the Presbyterian church.
After you read the Bible, read some books.
Nil desperandum.
PAX CHRISTI
“Gibberish”
No, simple English. Sad that it is beyond you. Conflating WORSHIP and VENERATION is basic elementary English. Sad that your blindness keeps you from such simple TRUTH.
The fact some RCs think they know better than Scripture and Moses and Paul is really sad.
Well I have been known to visit a candle grotto, and to light a votive candle testifying to my desire of lifting a prayer on behalf of a fellow suffering human being, via the ministration of the blessed Mother of God, the Queen of Heaven — Mary. Though I find there is no statue of Mary within these precincts, I do understand that this holy place is devoted to her, and she to it.
Whether the suffering subject of my prayer is Catholic or not, it makes no difference to me. Or to Mary. The particular candle grotto I attend (as often as I can, which is not often enuf — it's a long trip from where I live) is the Shrine of the Divine Mercy, on Eden Hill, in Stockbridge, Massachusetts.
I find it an island of sanctity and peace in the sh*tstorm of the Kultursmog in which we all seem to live (and to be choking in) nowadays....
Of course, the entire place is devoted to the Holy Mother of God.... Her "place" in Catholic theology is (humbly) presented in the great fresco over the Alter in the main Shrine....
So when one lights a candle on behalf of a suffering loved one here, in this sacred place, one does so in honor, in appeal to the blessed Mother of God.
Catholics are "so close to the ground" of human experience that they actually think a mother may have some influence with her Son — even if He is God Himself.
Go figure.
I am really sick and tired of trying to "build a bridge" between Pentacostals and Catholics.
In the end, God still probably sees each as members of the One Faithful Body of Christ.
Even if so many of His children do not.
God bless.
Good night.
But we know one of the sources of the Mary as Eve marchen.
“Irenaeus, Chapter XIX.-A Comparison is Instituted Between the Disobedient and Sinning Eve and the Virgin Mary, Her Patroness. Various and Discordant Heresies are Mentioned.
1. That the Lord then was manifestly coming to His own things, and was sustaining them by means of that creation which is supported by Himself, and was making a recapitulation of that disobedience which had occurred in connection with a tree, through the obedience which was [exhibited by Himself when He hung] upon a tree, [the effects] also of that deception being done away with, by which that virgin Eve, who was already espoused to a man, was unhappily misled,-was happily announced, through means of the truth [spoken] by the angel to the Virgin Mary, who was [also espoused] to a man.168 For just as the former was led astray by the word of an angel, so that she fled from God when she had transgressed His word; so did the latter, by an angelic communication, receive the glad tidings that she should sustain (portaret) God, being obedient to His word. And if the former did disobey God, yet the latter was persuaded to be obedient to God, in order that the Virgin Mary might become the patroness169 (advocata) of the virgin Eve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by means of a virgin, so is it rescued by a virgin; virginal disobedience having been balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. For in the same way the sin of the first created man (protoplasti) receives amendment by the correction of the First-begotten, and the coming of the serpent is conquered by the harmlessness of the dove, those bonds being unloosed by which we had been fast bound to death. (Early Christain Writings)
Mary “rescued the human race”?? from “bondage to death”???
Irenaeus comments show how these apostate doctrines had already permeated the thinking of the “church fathers”.
And now as tradition they are given equal weight as inspired Scripture by the Catholic church.
I'm not presuming to speak for all "protestants" here, so hear me out and let me know your opinion(s)...
I don't think for one minute that those who disparage the praying, veneration, worship, whatever, to, for, or of, Mary, are doing so in any way to be hateful towards the mother of Jesus Christ. I think we have all consistently said she is blessed, honored, admired and held in esteem. It is the unbiblical notions and the extra-scriptural doctrines that "gets my (our) goat".
Here's an idea...folks want to pray "to" Mary and use all those flowery labels for her, go ahead, I won't and can't stop them. But, by the same token, they should not presume to tell, or insist, that others MUST also do the same as they do in order to be considered Christians. I try to give people the benefit of the doubt where faith is concerned. If the gospel, as clearly explained in scripture, is believed and acknowledged, who am I to judge what should be between a person and God? He alone sees the heart, I can only see the outward appearance - the fruit.
BTW...I'm trying out a new tagline.
I disagree. I will go only this far. i think some of the anti-Catholics have made the kind of choice which pretty much makes insight impossible. So, I'm conceding, they don't understand that they are dominated by hatred and anger, but they are. Most of what they say is angry and hateful.
However I hasten to say that there are a lot, a whole big lot, of non-Catholics who are still honestly seeking the truth. A candid seeker of the truth is always beautiful, even when he's disagreeing with me.
Let's see some references, please.
Do you have a disagreement with the "bondage to death" part or just the "rescued the human race" part?
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