Posted on 03/23/2010 6:37:37 AM PDT by marshmallow
What's the real cancer at the heart of the church? Not pedophile priests...they're a symptom of a much deeper problem. Gerald Warner at the Daily Telegraph let's fly in this article about the real problem underlying the child abuse scandals. I think he's on target in much of what he says.
The secular press are fond of saying that the child abuse problem is caused by the demand for priestly celibacy. There is an underlying cause, but it's not that. The underlying cause is that too many Catholics have lost the plot completely. For the last forty years the church has been infected with modernism, and the key tenet of modernism is that there is no such thing as the supernatural. What you see is what you get.
This serious sickness at the very heart of the church swept through monasteries, convents and seminaries. The honest priests, nuns and religious lost their faith and got out. The lazy ones stayed put and enjoyed a meal ticket for life. No longer believing in the reality and power of the sacraments, they drifted into a no man's land in which they were priests, bishops and religious without believing in religion. What were they supposed to do? They decided to re-create the church as a kind of dining club with a social conscience.
When it came to sexuality, well since the invention of the pill, everyone else was playing around with whoever they wanted. The apostate priests had no reason to insist on such an outmoded thing as chastity, and if no one else had to be chaste, why should they? If they no longer had to believe in heaven or hell (you make your own heaven or hell here on earth don't you know?) then there was no real penalty if your sexual tastes were, errm, unconventional. Homosexuality was presented as natural, and sex wasn't for procreation, and everybody was sexually active, so why not play around with whoever you liked?
A therapeutic culture swept in and suddenly nobody was a sinner. "I'm OK. You're OK." You don't need punishment or banishment. You don't even need forgiveness and a demand for reparation. You need therapy. No wonder they covered up. In their anthropology no one was a sinner. No one was bad. They were just wounded. They were just sick. They needed help.
G.K.Chesterton said that "Every argument is a theological argument." and it is always and everywhere true that a moral crisis is linked with a theological crisis. Benedict XVI's letter to the Irish church rightly calls for a spiritual and liturgical and theological renewal. The pedophile priest crisis is not just a crisis of morals, but a crisis of belief.
Finally, this crisis of belief is not just a crisis among a few twisted and evil perverts. It is a crisis of belief in our whole church. Archbishops, Bishops, Abbots, Mother Superiors, Seminary Rectors, Theologians, Priests and people have all been swamped with something other than the red blooded Catholic faith of our Fathers. They've been tromping along like drug addled zombies following a feel good false religion that has been used to deceive millions.
We all need repentance in the face of this. We all need to turn again to the awareness that the devil is real, that sin is real, that nice people are capable of terrible evil. We must be on our guard. We must believe in the power and reality of the sacraments. We must be New Testament Christians with missionary zeal, the discipline of ascetical prayer and a warrior spirit.
Nothing else will do.
The Roman "church" is a man-made corporation It has produced the occasion of sin for those "priests" YHvH's salvation is found in His WORD. YHvH has not required "priests" since 70 CE.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
which required pagan celibacy.
Simplistic nonsense.
Of course there is a church! It is visible. It is made up of every Christian . . . and only Christians. Members of the Catholic Church who are not believers are not members of the church.
Most pedophiles in the general population are heterosexual. But that obscures two more important truths.
In the cases against the Catholic Church, about 90% involve plaintiffs who are adult men. When they were molested, they were teenaged boys.
A. Most pedophiles in the priesthood are homosexual.
B. Homosexuals are a lot more likely to be pedophiles.
Technically the term is “ephebophiles,” since their victims are almost always teenaged boys, ages 13-16.
But that root cause would never have had a chance to exist if there had not already been a vacuum created by lack of faith.
Scripture receives its authority from the Church, not the other way round.
__________________________________________________________
“God’s word” receives its authority from the Church, not the other way round.
Turns my stomach just writing it.
False assumptions.
Simplistic nonsense?
Do tell!
Homosexuality?
Boys being the main targets?
Homosexuals all the way up to the Vatican?
Homosexuals covering for each other all these years?
Homosexuals being ILLEGITIMATE priests?
Married priests including GAY marriage?
The elimination of pedophiles and homosexual clergy as a good thing?
Expecting people who joined an institution under a set of rules being expected to live by them?
The 10 Commandments could be called pretty simplistic. Not much nuance there. More simple right/wrong instead of
situational ethics and the church( and society) would not find itself where it does.
I take your charge of ‘simplistic’ as a compliment, sir.
No, the problem is that the church did not deal with the problem when it occurred, now they are paying the price. Priests involved w/this should’ve been kicked out or moved to seminaries away from kids. Instead, they were left in place and had continued access for future abuse.
I myself am Catholic and have never been personally involved w/a priest, nor have I even known anyone personally to be involved. However, in public school, I know of at least three kids that got involved w/teachers.
Difference is that when teachers get caught, they get fired. Church was too forgiving in the past.
Sorry, but all of this kind of “what’s wrong w/the church” tripe is just that.
Libs don’t like Catholics because Catholics don’t like abortion, don’t promote gays, don’t advocate divorce, and a host of other political differences. They simply use this as ammunition.
That’s why the real statistics are ignored. Far fewer priests abusing than in the rest of the world (4% vs 8% above).
Nevertheless, when found out, the priests need to be kicked out.
Homosexuals are the sworn enemy of Christianity. They do more to undermine the church (all denominations) than all the rest combined. Their sickness, disgusting behavior, and hatred is pervasive for any who oppose sexual perversion, including access to children.
It should... it's incorrect.
The Church stands on three pillars... Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. The Church gets credit for recognizing God's Voice in compiling the Canon of Scripture... but Scripture is the Word of God and is itself empowering. However, Scripture, by Itself, is incomplete. It tells the story of our salvation but is not an owner's manual for life. For example, you can't recreate nearly any of the liturgical services down through history strictly from the Bible (and liturgy has always been central to worship of God... whether for Jew or Christian). That is where Sacred Tradition fills the gaps. Contrary to popular Protestant belief, Sacred Tradition isn't a collection of man-made artifices with which we've become accustomed. It's foundation is the Deposit of Faith given to us by Christ. There is only one instance in all of Scripture that records Jesus writing anything... when he wrote on the ground in front of the woman accused of adultery. He never commanded His Apostles to write anything... He commanded them to preach, teach and baptize. That is the Tradition of which we speak. 2 Thess 2:15.
The Magisterium is the teaching authority of the Church as guided by the Holy Spirit. Do you think that what Jesus said 2,000 years ago is it? When the Church compiled the Canon in the Fourth Century, that was it? No. Christ gave us the Holy Spirit to guide and build our faith. He promised the Spirit would be with us even to the end of the age. The Holy Spirit's Voice is active in the Apostolic community of Faith.
Precisely right!
The main question is why weren’t they- and why aren’t they now? Why the coverups? Why have a set of rules held up that are theory -not practiced?
If a priest is found to have a girlfriend ( this happened in a local parish years ago) secretly, out he goes- because he has broken his vows. He was not protected and shuffled quietly to another parish. Why not?
Sex between consenting adults is not illegal.
But sex with minors is. And sex with anyone violates the vows willingly taken by priests.
Yet violating those vows in a normal, legal relationship gets a priest defrocked.
Violating them with children and each other does not.
This Catholic wants to know why!
After reading a lot about the topic of priestly perversion I know that none of them pray,
except for the public prayers that are required. None of them are working on their souls.
No, the root cause is as the good father has explained. It is that they have lost their faith.
When that happens any perversity can take hold.
The devil loves it.
But he offers nothing with which a celibate priest, or a church whose clergy are supposed to be celibate, can use to actually deal with the culture of which they are a part.
His solution is of the "if everybody would just do X...." variety. It sounds great, but it doesn't actually account for the fact that most people clearly are not "just doing X." It really does not address the actual problems in any practical way.
In particular, Fr. Longenecker seems to think that the surrounding culture is not part of the problem -- he thinks it's all up to the church. But that's wrong. The problem is that the culture is affecting the church and its priests; and it does not offer its priests any serious way to combat it. The church cannot just become insular in response -- the answer, if there is any answer at all, has to be found through interaction with the surrounding culture. It's the only way for the church to have authority within the culture.
The real question is: how should the church do that? How, specifically, can the church usefully offer itself as an alternative to a decadent and over-sexualized culture?
Well, the theological splitting of hairs leaves lay Catholics worshipping Saints and thinking things like Saint Anthony cured their boy, thinking that Mary is an intermediary to God, and that scripture derives its authority from the Church.
You paint with a very broad brush, FRiend. You portray yourself as being familiar with what the devil loves ... so you no doubt know how much the devil loves it when people paint with a broad brush.
The secular press are fond of saying that the child abuse problem is caused by the demand for priestly celibacy. There is an underlying cause, but it's not that. The underlying cause is that too many Catholics have lost the plot completely. For the last forty years the church has been infected with modernism, and the key tenet of modernism is that there is no such thing as the supernatural. What you see is what you get.
Bingo! For once an author pegged it correctly!
**I was raised as a Catholic, now a Protestant.**
You are always a Catholic. Your Catholic baptism will still be with you at the moment of your death. We welcome you back at any time. Please sit down with a priest and get your questions answered truthfully.
*Sigh* Catholics don't worship saints. St Anthony didn't cure the boy... we simply asked him to pray for the boy as we would ask any fellow Christian. Mary is a saint... see the previous comment on St Anthony. Scripture doesn't derive its authority from the Church... the Church is the presenter of Scripture to the world.
Some people get it wrong... in all faiths and walks of life. That doesn't invalidate the institution, its mission, the more than a billion adherents, and its very deep historical roots.
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