Posted on 03/10/2010 7:50:03 AM PST by Pope Pius XII
Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York told an Albany television reporter on March 9 that he does not favor denying Holy Communion to Catholic politicians who support abortion and same-sex marriage.
“NEWS10's John McLoughlin asked Archbishop Dolan if he favored denying the Church's Sacraments to politicians, like Governor David Paterson, who are Roman Catholic but also pro-choice and pro-gay marriage,” WTEN-TV reported. “The prelate acknowledged that some of his fellow bishops might favor such a ban, but Dolan said he does not, preferring to follow the lead of Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, who said it was better to try to persuade them than to impose sanctions.”
Archbishop Dolan was in Albany to lobby on behalf of Catholic schools, which face increasing financial strain because of unfunded government mandates.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholicculture.org ...
That is my understanding also.
None of us have to make a public confession before receiving Our Lord, as it is on our individual consciences.
The Bishops and faithful have no way of knowing an individuals standing unless they publicly proclaim their sinful way prior to the moment that they receive Communion.
I don’t know how many times I have to repeat it: publicly denying Communion to a pro-abort is
EXACTLY
WHAT
THEY
WANT
DOLAN
TO
DO
Because then they will be the martyrs and Dolan the Grand Inquisitor.
The bishops lost the ability to impose sanction when they refused to do so back when public opinion would have taken them seriously.
Now they are stuck. If they publicly confront the Pelosis, Pelosis turns it back against them. If they don’t publicly confront the Pelosis get away with murder.
Yeah, sooner or later they are going to have to excommunicate the Pelosis and take the heat.
But all of you folks out their screaming for the bishops to take this step
WHAT WILL YOU DO TO COVER THEIR BACKS WHEN THEY FINALLY DO IT?
Do you realize what will happen when they do it? Will you do something to change the public backlash? What exactly will you do?
Armchair bishop-scolding is cheap. What exactly are we going to do to help make this work when the bishops finally do it?
Do you realize that the horses are out of the barn, that the Pelosis know they are now beyond the reach of the bishops? That the Pelosis don’t give a damn about any old bishop’s disciplining of them? That the Pelosis are giving the bishops the finger?
Armchair-scold the bishops if you must but for every time you denounce a bishop for not taking the steps you want them to take, take a half-dozen shots at the Pelosis. If you live in a district represented by one of these monsters, before bashing your bishop, bash the pro-abort pols in your district a dozen times. Then you can self-righteously preach at your bishop.
Yes, it’s the bishops’ fault they are in this pickle.
But they are in this pickle. And they need lay Catholics to help them out of it.
I have to disagree with you here. The reason canon law 915 needs to be enforced is because abortion is a sin, a scandal and an outrage. Bishop Burke did the same thing, and look at the number of vocations he got in his diocese.
I don’t disagree that Canon 915 will need to be enforced.
I’m just pointing out that thats exactly what the pro-abort Catholic politicians want.
So you’d better figure out what you are going to do when the backlash hits. You are pushing your bishop out in front of you into a hail of bullets. Will you be standing alongside him as he’s mowed down? What will you do to give him cover? What can you do? What can any of us do?
I’ll tell you what. Soften up the battlefield for your bishop by doing whatever you can, politically, to get to the Pelosis out there before the bishops launch the assault.
I am so darn tired of conservative Catholic lay people thinking that if only the bishops would do the right thing all would be well.
The bishops failed miserably 30 years ago. Today’s bishops are imprisoned by that failure. We can bitch and moan all we want about that failure, but we have to be realistic about the mess we are now in. Actions by the bishops will NOT solve the problem of pro-abort “Catholic” politicians. They are one ingredient in the solution.
BUT THE HEART OF THE SOLUTION IS POLITICAL BECAUSE THE ERROR OF THE POLITICIANS IS POLITICAL. Only if the Pelosis of this world can be made to feel political heat for their pro-abort positions will the Pelosis of the world be stopped in their murderous actions.
The obvious short comings tend to destroy the relevance of the entire church.
You'd figure a Bishop could figure that out.
As an Ex-Catholic, it will be great to see the day when Rudy Giuliani, Christine Quinn, and Carolyn McCarty are denied communion.
Jaime Cardinal Sin was the Bishop of Manila, PI. ;'}
The Cardinal Sins are: Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wrath, Envy, and Pride. It seems to me that the American legalized abortion regime is motivated at least by Lust, Sloth, Greed and Pride. Possibly also Wrath and Envy.
If one wishes to be taken seriously, one would do well to restrict oneself to posting the truth.
Your post is not only false, it is so absurdly and obviously false as to invite ridicule.
But that doesn’t mean that we should be idle be like the workers in Matthew 20:1-16 no?
I’m not playing armchair and being the quarterback here. I’m saying that if canon law 915 is enforced, then it would go a long way towards ending abortion.
Abortion must be stopped. No matter the cost.
Either the teaching of the Church means something, or it doesn't. If the leaders of the Church are not going to insist that those who profess belief in the Church follow its precepts, then those have no meaning. If so, why have them at all? Just excess baggage. If the Church will not stand against the most egregious sin of the world, how is it different?
Are you saying that having an abortion is not automatic excommunication?
Canon 1398 provides that, “a person who procures a successful abortion incurs an automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication.” This means that at the very moment that the abortion is successfully accomplished, the woman and all formal conspirators are excommunicated.
Good luck with that. Niederauer was so successful with Nancy Pelosi...
Both the sin of abortion and the excommunication attached to it are absolved in the Sacrament of Confession. I know of no-one who has been denied Holy Communion because the priest suspected them of committing abortion. I also know of no-one who was refused absolution when confessing an abortion. Sadly, I know several people who committed that sin.
I, too, am scandalized by the lack of action with regard to abortophilic politicians. OTOH, the idea that a girl who commits abortion is thrown out on her ear with no recourse ("out she goes") is false and ludicrous.
In any case, whether one has been excommunicated or not, the sin of abortion must be confessed as the taking of innocent human life (5th Commandment). If the penitent did not know about this law at the time of the abortion then he or she was NOT excommunicated. If the person knew about the law but there were extenuating circumstances (such as mentioned above concerning c. 1323) then these factors should be mentioned to the confessor. He will say whether he has the faculty from the bishop to absolve from this excommunication or whether he even needs to. If he does not, he will privately and secretly obtain absolution from the bishop or send the person to a confessor who has that power.
In any case, whether one has been excommunicated or not, the sin of abortion must be confessed as the taking of innocent human life (5th Commandment).
The church has a right to lift the excommunication ..because it is an ecclesiastical rule, not a biblical one. I never said they did not have control over that , but the person is still excommunicated by her action of having one or assistance at preforming one..
Those politicians have blood all over their hands.. but the church looks the other way and does not excommunicate them ....and their reason is they have control over purse strings
This policy has caused havoc in the Church and has left the various wolves in place to harm the Church from within. This is in my view a serious failure in charity towards these recalcitrant Catholics, the faithful, and failing in the munus of governing the Church. Hence more of the same. The whole point of penalties is that they are medicinal: to confront the recalcitrant with the consequences of their behavior and protect the faithful. Is the Pope really on board with this? Don’t think so.
“I’m just pointing out that thats exactly what the pro-abort Catholic politicians want.”
I think you are exactly wrong. The libs worst nightmare is for the bishops to treat abortion like what they say it is.
You can’t teach without discipline. If a kid is doing something bad in class that the teacher has taught is bad, and the kid is never disciplined publicly for doing this thing, and even keeps doing it, the rest of the students get the idea that if the teacher doesn’t care then the bad thing really isn’t too big of a deal after all, even if the teacher says it is.
And yes, the bishops are in a position where if they do start treating abortion like what they say it is they will have to face up to the fact that they should have been acting like abortion is baby butchery all along. So what, I reckon they’ll have to bear it.
Freegards
Nonsense ... They are also excommunicated as a result of their participation in procurement of abortion. That certain bishops refuse to enforce the Church law is indeed scandalous.
.and their reason is they have control over purse strings
When folks attempt mind-reading, they usually reveal more about themselves than they do about the folks whose minds they presume to read.
Archbishop Burke has PROVEN that obeying Canon 915 is a grave obligation. That means, as the laity usually term it, it is a mortal sin to disobey Canon 915.
As long as Archbishop Dolan, or any other bishop, priest, deacon, or extraordinary minister of Communion knowingly refuses to obey Canon 915, then they should either publish an article showing why Archbishop Burke is mistaken, or they themselves should abstain from Communion.
The Archdiocese of New York (and all but about a dozen dioceses in the country) has a bishop who is obstinately persisting in public grave sin, and should not be receiving Communion.
But surely all those bishops couldn’t be wrong, could they, while only a dozen are doing the right thing!!!
There was only one Catholic bishop in England who did not cave to Henry VIII. And he’s the only one whose name is not forgotten by everyone except history buffs. And he’s the only one who is a saint.
http://tinyurl.com/pont915
http://tinyurl.com/peters915
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