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ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN)
lightplanet.com ^ | Jeffrey R. Holland

Posted on 03/01/2010 5:56:02 PM PST by greyfoxx39

 

Atonement of Jesus Christ

by Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland

The Atonement of Jesus Christ is the foreordained but voluntary act of the Only Begotten Son of God. He offered his life, including his innocent body, blood, and spiritual anguish as a redeeming ransom (1) for the effect of the Fall of Adam upon all mankind and (2) for the personal sins of all who repent, from Adam to the end of the world. Latter-day Saints believe this is the central fact, the crucial foundation, the chief doctrine, and the greatest expression of divine love in the Plan of Salvation. The Prophet Joseph Smith declared that all "things which pertain to our religion are only appendages" to the Atonement of Christ (TPJS, p. 121).

The literal meaning of the word "Atonement" is self-evident: at-one-ment, the act of unifying or bringing together what has been separated and estranged. The Atonement of Jesus Christ was indispensable because of the separating transgression, or fall, of Adam, which brought death into the world when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2:9; 3:1-24). Latter-day Saints readily acknowledge both the physical and the spiritual death that Adam and Eve brought upon themselves and all of their posterity, physical death bringing the temporary separation of the spirit from the body, and spiritual death bringing the estrangement of both the spirit and the body from God. But they also believe that the Fall was part of a divine, foreordained plan without which mortal children would not have been born to Adam and Eve. Had not these first parents freely chosen to leave the Garden of Eden via their transgression, there would have been on this earth no human family to experience opposition and growth, moral agency and choice, and the joy of resurrection, redemption, and eternal life (2 Ne. 2:23; Moses 5:11).

The need for a future Atonement was explained in a premortal Council in Heaven at which the spirits of the entire human family were in attendance and over which God the Father presided. The two principal associates of God in that council were the premortal Jesus (also known as Jehovah; see Jesus Christ, Jehovah) and the premortal Adam (also known as Michael). It was in this premortal setting that Christ voluntarily entered into a covenant with the Father, agreeing to enhance the moral agency of humankind even as he atoned for their sins, and he returned to the Father all honor and glory for such selflessness. This preordained role of Christ as mediator explains why the book of Revelation describes Christ as "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev. 13:8) and why Old Testament prophets, priests, and kings, including Moses (Deut. 18:15, 17-19), Job (19:25-27), the Psalmist (Ps. 2, 22), Zechariah (9:9; 12:10; 13:6), Isaiah (7:14; 9:6-7; 53), and Micah (5:2), could speak of the Messiah and his divine role many centuries before his physical birth. A Book of Mormon prophet wrote, "I say unto you that none of the prophets have written, nor prophesied, save they have spoken concerning this Christ" (Jacob 4:4; 7:11). To the brother of Jared who lived some two thousand years before the Redeemer's birth, the premortal Christ declared, "Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people" (Ether 3:14). Such scriptural foreshadowings are reflected in the conversation Christ had with two of his disciples on the road to Emmaus: "Beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself" (Luke 24:27; cf. also 24:44).

For Latter-day Saints, it is crucially important to see the agreed-upon and understood fall of man only in the context of the equally agreed-upon and understood redemption of man—redemption provided through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Thus, one of the most important and oft-quoted lines of Latter-day Saint scripture says, "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy. And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall" (2 Ne. 2:25-26).

LDS scripture teaches that the mission of Christ as Redeemer and the commandment to offer animal sacrifice as an anticipatory reminder and symbol of that divine Atonement to come were first taught to Adam and Eve soon after they had been expelled from the Garden of Eden (Moses 5:4-8). The Atonement of Christ was taught to the parents of the family of man with the intent that they and their posterity would observe the sacrificial ordinances down through their generations, remembering as they did so the mission and mercy of Christ who was to come. Latter-day Saints emphatically teach that the extent of this Atonement is universal, opening the way for the redemption of all mankind—non-Christians as well as Christians, the godless as well as the god-fearing, the untaught infant as well as the fully converted and knowledgeable adult. "It is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice," said Amulek in the Book of Mormon, "an infinite and eternal sacrifice…. There can be nothing which is short of an infinite Atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world" (Alma 34:10, 12).

This infinite Atonement of Christ—and of Christ only—was possible because (1) he was the only sinless man ever to live on this earth and therefore was not subject to the spiritual death that comes as a result of sin; (2) he was the Only Begotten of the Father and therefore possessed the attributes of Godhood, which gave him power over physical death (see 2 Ne. 9:5-9; Alma 34:9-12); and (3) he was the only one sufficiently humble and willing in the premortal council to be foreordained there to that service (JC, pp. 21-62).

The universal, infinite, and unconditional aspects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ are several. They include his ransom for Adam's original transgression so that no member of the human family is held responsible for that sin (A of F 2; see Original Sin). Another universal gift is the resurrection from the dead of every man, woman, and child who lives, has ever lived, or ever will live, on the earth. Thus, the Atonement is not only universal in the sense that it saves the entire human family from physical death, but it is also infinite in the sense that its impact and efficacy in making redemption possible for all reach back in one direction to the beginning of time and forward in the other direction throughout all eternity. In short, the Atonement has universal, infinite, and unconditional consequences for all mankind throughout the duration of all eternity.

Emphasizing these unconditional gifts arising out of Christ's atoning sacrifice, Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church, and press forward with a brightness of hope and faithful endurance for the remainder of life's journey. Of this personal challenge, Christ said, "For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent; but if they would not repent they must suffer even as I; which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink" (D&C 19:16-18).

Furthermore, although the breaking of the bonds of mortal death by the resurrection of the body is a free and universal gift from Christ, a product of his victory over death and the grave, the kind or nature of the body (or "degree of glory" of the body), as well as the time of one's resurrection, is affected very directly by the extent of one's faithfulness in this life (see Degrees of Glory). The apostle Paul made clear, for example, that those most fully committed to Christ will "rise first" in the resurrection (1 Thes. 4:16). Paul also speaks of different orders of resurrected bodies (1 Cor. 15:40). The bodies of the highest orders or degrees of glory in the resurrection are promised to those who faithfully adhere to the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ; they will not only enjoy immortality (a universal gift to everyone) but also eternal lives in the Celestial Kingdom of glory (D&C 88:4; 132:24; see also Resurrection).

Latter-day Saints stress that neither the unconditional nor the conditional blessings of the Atonement would be available to mankind except through the grace and goodness of Christ. Obviously the unconditional blessings of the Atonement are unearned, but the conditional ones are also not fully merited. By living faithfully and keeping the commandments of God, one can receive additional privileges; but they are still given freely, not fully earned. They are always and ever a product of God's grace. Latter-day Saint scripture is emphatic in its declaration that "there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah" (2 Ne. 2:8).

The Church is also emphatic about the salvation of little children, the mentally impaired, those who lived without ever hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ, and so forth: these are redeemed by the universal power of the Atonement of Christ and will have the opportunity to receive the fulness of the gospel in the spirit world (see Salvation for the Dead).

To meet the demands of the Atonement, the sinless Christ went first into the Garden of Gethsemane, there to bear the spiritual agony of soul only he could bear. He "began to be sorrowful and very heavy," saying to his three chief disciples, "My soul is exceeding sorrowful, unto death" (Mark 14:34). Leaving them to keep watch, he went further into the garden, where he would suffer "the pains of all men, yea, the pains of every living creature, both men, women, and children, who belong to the family of Adam" (2 Ne. 9:21). There he "struggled and groaned under a burden such as no other being who has lived on earth might even conceive as possible" (JC, p. 613).

Christ's Atonement satisfied the demands of justice and thereby ransomed and redeemed the souls of all men, women, and children "that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities" (Alma 7:12). Thus, Latter-day Saints teach that Christ "descended below all things"—including every kind of sickness, infirmity, and dark despair experienced by every mortal being—in order that he might "comprehend all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth" (D&C 88:6). This spiritual anguish of plumbing the depths of human suffering and sorrow was experienced primarily in the Garden of Gethsemane. It was there that he was "in an agony" and "prayed more earnestly." It was there that his sweat was "as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground" (Luke 22:44) for he bled "at every pore" (D&C 19:18). It was there that he began the final March to Calvary.

The majesty and triumph of the Atonement reached its zenith when, after unspeakable abuse at the hands of the Roman soldiers and others, Christ appealed from the cross, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34). Forgiveness was the key to the meaning of all the suffering he had come to endure.

Such an utterly lonely and excruciating mission is piercingly expressed in that near-final and most agonizing cry of all, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46). In the depths of that anguish, even nature itself convulsed, "and there was a darkness over all the earth…. The sun was darkened…. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent" (Luke 23:43-45; Matt. 27:51-52). Finally, even the seemingly unbearable had been borne and Jesus said, "It is finished" (John 19:30), and then, saying "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit," he "gave up the ghost" (Luke 23:46). Latter-day Saints believe that every tongue will someday, somewhere confess as did a Roman centurion at the crucifixion, "Truly this was the Son of God" (Matt. 27:54).

"The Savior thus becomes master of the situation—the debt is paid, the redemption made, the covenant fulfilled, justice satisfied, the will of God done, and all power is now given into the hands of the Son of God—the power of the resurrection, the power of the redemption, the power of salvation…. He becomes the author of eternal life and exaltation. He is the Redeemer, the Resurrector, the Savior of man and the world" (Taylor, p. 171). Furthermore, his Atonement extends to all life—beasts, fish, fowl, and the earth itself.

To the thoughtful woman and man, it is "a matter of surpassing wonder" (AF, p. 77) that the voluntary and merciful sacrifice of a single being could satisfy the infinite and eternal demands of justice, atone for every human transgression and misdeed, and thereby sweep all mankind into the encompassing arms of his merciful embrace. A President and prophet of the LDS Church writing on this subject said:

In some mysterious, incomprehensible way, Jesus assumed the responsibility which naturally would have devolved upon Adam; but which could only be accomplished through the mediation of Himself, and by taking upon Himself their sorrows, assuming their responsibilities, and bearing their transgressions or sins. In a manner to us incomprehensible and inexplicable, He bore the weight of the sins of the whole world, not only of Adam, but of his posterity; and in doing that opened the kingdom of heaven, not only to all believers and all who obeyed the law of God, but to more than one-half of the human family who die before they come to years of maturity as well as to the heathen, who having died without law, will, through His mediation, be resurrected without law, and be judged without law, and thus participate…in the blessings of His Atonement [Taylor, pp. 148-49].

Latter-day Saints sing a favorite hymn, written by Charles H. Gabriel, that expresses their deepest feelings regarding this greatest of all gifts:

I stand all amazed at the love Jesus offers me,

Confused at the grace that so fully he proffers me.

I tremble to know that for me he was crucified,

That for me, a sinner, he suffered, He bled and died.

Oh, it is wonderful that he should care for me

Enough to die for me!

Oh, it is wonderful, wonderful to me! [Hymns, p. 193].

Bibliography

McConkie, Bruce R. The Promised Messiah. Salt Lake City, 1978.

Nibley, Hugh W. "The Atonement of Jesus Christ," Ensign 20 (July 1990):18-23; (Aug. 1990):30-34; (Sept. 1990):22-26; (Oct. 1990):26-31.

Taylor, John. The Mediation and Atonement. Salt Lake City, 1882.

 



TOPICS: General Discusssion; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; beck; christian; glennbeck; lds; mormon; mormon1
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To: mrreaganaut
"I’m surprised that no Mormon defenders are here yet; "

Many Mormons stay away from certain posts here for one reason...

Those posters who disagree with Mormons are predictable and boring.

I mean, we get it already!

Mormons are going to hell and want everyone to go to hell with them....

Next.

21 posted on 03/01/2010 7:17:35 PM PST by GreyMountainReagan ("For Death is in charge of the clattering train")
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To: GreyMountainReagan

The only thing I really can’t stand is the endless and very long posts of copied quotes. I am sure they will be arriving shortly.


22 posted on 03/01/2010 7:24:45 PM PST by acipher
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To: lawsone

This is an example of minutia. I just can’t believe Jesus Christ will care whether we believed He suffered greatest in the garden or on the cross.

I think the important thing is that we believe He suffered for our sins.


23 posted on 03/01/2010 7:30:27 PM PST by acipher
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To: boomop1
I am not in tune with the Book of Mormon, there is only one book to put your trust in.

View this as innoculation to prevent the spread of mormonism. You are right to only trust in the bible. It provides a contrast for many to see what mormonism REALLY means when it uses Christian terms and so we don't get confused.

24 posted on 03/01/2010 7:40:18 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Logophile

Jesus and the apostles never told followers to ‘take up their garden and follow him’, or “I will glory in the garden” No, it is always the cross - probably for a very good reason - the garden had nothing to do with it.


25 posted on 03/01/2010 7:43:06 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: lawsone

Fiddlesticks...

Jesus DIED to give us Salvation...

In the Garden of Gethesame He asked His disciples to pray with Him...

He wasnt alone...He had the disciples with Him ...

On the Cross He shed His saving Blood and DIED ... ALONE..the only one...

He died on the Cross to save us and fulfilled PROPHECY...death on a tree...

The Blood of Jesus has the power to save us...

His time in Gethesame did not save us...

Gethesame is INSIDE the gates of Jerusalm...

Calvary where Jesus hung on the Cross is OUTSIDE the gates of Jerusalem...

From the Christian Bible that the mormons do not believe...

But all Christians do...

The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. And so JESUS ALSO SUFFERED OUTSIDE THE CITY GATE to make the people holy through His own blood. Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come. Hebrews 13:11-14


26 posted on 03/01/2010 7:47:03 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: GreyMountainReagan
Mormons are going to hell and want everyone to go to hell with them....

Well, it's good to let that out, I suppose...

27 posted on 03/01/2010 7:48:13 PM PST by mrreaganaut (Caprica to Baltar: "All this has happened before, and will happen again.")
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To: greyfoxx39; All
From the article: But they also believe that the Fall was part of a divine, foreordained plan without which mortal children would not have been born to Adam and Eve.

Biblical ignorance...from Smith to present Mormon leaders. If any had bothered to ever read the book of Genesis, they would have seen that the directive to "be fruitful and multiply" (Gen. 1:17-18) came well before any fall (Gen. 3).

28 posted on 03/01/2010 7:50:49 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it.)
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To: acipher; reaganaut

You do have a point about the long posts of copied quotes. I find them tiresome, too, but sometimes people invite them by saying, “Where’s your proof?”

Of course, we could discuss Battlestar Galactica or Big Love, but that might get tiresome even more quickly!


29 posted on 03/01/2010 7:58:05 PM PST by mrreaganaut (What did the Buddha say to the hot-dog vendor? "Make me One with everything.")
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To: mrreaganaut
You're my hero...


30 posted on 03/01/2010 8:04:53 PM PST by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: greyfoxx39; reaganaut; Tennessee Nana
From the article ...and in doing that opened the kingdom of heaven, not only to all believers and all who obeyed the law of God, but to more than one-half of the human family who die before they come to years of maturity as well as to the heathen, who having died without law, will, through His mediation, be resurrected without law, and be judged without law, and thus participate…in the blessings of His Atonement [Taylor, pp. 148-49].

This is an example of what Reaganaut was saying about how Lds redefine "atonement." The English word atonement was literally created as a combo of three words -- at-one-ment. IOW, harmony; reconciliation -- like 2 Cor. 5:18: All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ...

Yet Mormon leaders talk about a "reconciliation" minus any relationship of faith & trust. Note the quote above -- where the heathen minus any reconciliation here on earth, will still be "resurrected" and "participate...in the blessings of His atonement." Yet how can any group of men receive such a blessing meant to reopen a closed door this side of death -- yet never experience reconciliation until post-death?

Mormons are basically saying that the effects of the atonement don't necessarily result in the necessities of the Christian faith.
No faith needed.
No trust needed.
No real relationship with God needed.
No harmony with God needed.
No reconciliation with God needed.
"Why," Mormon leaders seeimingly say, "this will somehow all come after death -- during the resurrection."

Yet what Scripture do Mormons constantly neglect about one aspect of the resurrection? And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:29)

Mormons want to pretend John 5:29 doesn't exist.
Mormons want to pretend that ALL resurrections involve some "degree of glory."
(May I remind all Mormons that the "resurrection of damnation" IS NOT a degree a glory!)

31 posted on 03/01/2010 8:07:18 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it.)
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To: Godzilla
Jesus and the apostles never told followers to ‘take up their garden and follow him’, or “I will glory in the garden” No, it is always the cross - probably for a very good reason - the garden had nothing to do with it.

Certainly something significant happened in the Garden. Luke tells us that Jesus was "in agony," and that "his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground." (Luke 22:44). That sounds as if Jesus was laboring under an enormous load.

That load, I believe, was the burden of the sins of mankind, which he bore until he died on the cross. If you believe otherwise, we will have to agree to disagree on that point.

I hope we can agree that Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind, that he died on the cross, was resurrected, ascended into heaven, and will return in glory. That is enough for me.

32 posted on 03/01/2010 8:09:22 PM PST by Logophile
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To: ejonesie22

ROTFL!!! With posts like that, you’re my hero!


33 posted on 03/01/2010 8:11:44 PM PST by mrreaganaut (What did the Buddha say to the hot-dog vendor? "Make me One with everything.")
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To: Godzilla

Amazing isnt it...

Paul was right ...

The Cross...always its the Cross...

and Satan hates the Cross...

satan causes the lost to hate it too...

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it’s all nonsense. 1 Corinthians 1:23

Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. Galatians 3:1

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” Galatians 3:13

So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man on the cross, then you will understand that I Am he. I do nothing on my own but say only what the Father taught me. John 8:28

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Galations 6:14

For Christ didn’t send me to baptize, but to preach the Good News—and not with clever speech, for fear that the cross of Christ would lose its power. 1 Corinthians 1:17

For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. Philippians 3:18

And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, Philippians 2:8, 9

by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. Ephesians 2:5, 16

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Colossians 1:20

having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. Colossians 2:14

Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. 1 Peter 2:24

And Jesus Christ was revealed as God’s Son by his baptism in water and by shedding his blood on the cross—not by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit, who is truth, confirms it with his testimony. 1 John 5:6

The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree Acts 5:30

For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2

None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1 Corinthians 2:8

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Galatians 6:14


34 posted on 03/01/2010 8:15:06 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: mrreaganaut
One Galactica fan to another.

BTW I have started to get into Caprica, it's not bad...

35 posted on 03/01/2010 8:25:39 PM PST by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: acipher
This is an example of minutia. I just can’t believe Jesus Christ will care whether we believed He suffered greatest in the garden or on the cross. I think the important thing is that we believe He suffered for our sins.

The Apostle Paul would disagree with you: "For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things." (Philippians 3:18-19) Additionally, Paul stated: "For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power." (1 Corinthians 1:17)

If Mormons do indeed hold that the cross of Christ is of no importance, then the Apostle Paul has a problem with that. Paul doesn't sound like someone who thinks the cross is unimportant.

36 posted on 03/01/2010 8:29:23 PM PST by CommerceComet
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To: greyfoxx39; All
From the article: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional...

Let's stop it right there: How many of you Mormon parents, or if you're not a parent, had Mormon parents, who gave "conditional" so-called "gifts?"

So, what are the Mormon god's "conditions" according to this article?
1. Obey
2. Obey diligently

So, here's what I suggest: If you Mormons want to be like your god every Christmas and birthday party for kids of your families/extended families...just start attaching long tethers to them with a note: "Here's a conditional gift...you must obey & obey diligently...or this 'gift' will rebound to me."

From the article: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church...

Did you all catch the above??? Per Mormonism -- this means that if you join the "wrong" church, your "reprieve of" your "own sins" isn't going to come from your pardon-Governing god. (More "conditions").

Bottom line: These manmade Mormon "conditions" are in reality workman wages. They aren't "gifts" at all. You have to work for it all; diligently; obediently; and touch all the right "association" bases.

I looked at the 1979 "Topical Guide" in the Lds version of its KJV -- and turned to the "worthiness" entry there: It tells me right up top it's related to the concept of "qualifying for" & then proceeds to verses like D&C 31:5: "Therefore, thrust in your sickle with all your soul, and your sins are forgiven you, and you shall be laden with sheaves upon your back, for the laborer is worthy of his hire. Wherefore, your family shall live."

Ah. There it is: The Mormon "strategy":
Don't "trust" for either forgiveness of yours sins or your salvation, "thrust in your sickle"
Thrust, don't trust (work; don't relate; slave away with your sickle; don't be faithfully wedded as the Bible describes the Church to be -- the bride of the Lamb)

So it sounds like the Mormon god wants plenty of soul labor -- paid labor -- spiritual hirelings -- earned labor for salvation. No free gifts here. No grace here. Just follow the rules, ma'am.

37 posted on 03/01/2010 8:29:46 PM PST by Colofornian (If you're not going to drink the coffee, at least wake up and smell it.)
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To: Tennessee Nana
The Cross...always its the Cross...and Satan hates the Cross...satan causes the lost to hate it too...

I can still remember years ago when I was a new Christian and a Mormon co-worker and I went to the local athletic club to play racquetball. As we were changing, he saw that I was wearing a cross under my dress shirt. I was astounded by how offended he was by it. It greatly puzzled me as I thought then that Mormons were just an sect of Christianity. As I learned more over the years about orthodox Christianity and Mormonism, I understood why the hostility and its spiritual implications.

38 posted on 03/01/2010 8:42:45 PM PST by CommerceComet
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To: Tennessee Nana

Gethesame is INSIDE the gates of Jerusalm...

________

Actually, Gethsemane is the press in the olive grove or “garden” on the Mount of Olives across the Kidron Valley from the east wall of the city.

Just sayin’.


39 posted on 03/01/2010 9:02:38 PM PST by Blue Collar Christian (A "tea bagger"? Say it to my face. ><BCC>)
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To: acipher
I just can’t believe Jesus Christ will care whether we believed He suffered greatest in the garden or on the cross. I think the important thing is that we believe He suffered for our sins.

Why did He have to suffer? Why is it the important thing that we believe in it? The assumption seems to be that sins are a kind of debt that must be paid in blood - why?

"If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof. Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?" Psalm 50:12-13. Further, "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Psalm 51:17.

These verses do not mean a universal salvation, but a possibility of it, and a possibility of a relationship beyond mere superstition. Not through the Garden, but by the Cross, "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all." Hebrews 10:10.

Why? "For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself." Hebrews 7:26-27. Jesus Christ offered Himself on the Cross of Calvary to end our attempts to sacrifice our way into Heaven. Why fight Him?

40 posted on 03/01/2010 9:34:07 PM PST by mrreaganaut (Battlestar Galactica: Another Testimony of the Church of Jesus Chist of Latter-Day Saints)
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