Posted on 02/28/2010 8:30:39 AM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
John Calvin's 16th century reply to medieval Catholicism's buy-your-way-out-of-purgatory excesses is Evangelicalism's latest success story, complete with an utterly sovereign and micromanaging deity, sinful and puny humanity, and the combination's logical consequence, predestination: the belief that before time's dawn, God decided whom he would save (or not), unaffected by any subsequent human action or decision.
Calvinism, cousin to the Reformation's other pillar, Lutheranism, is a bit less dour than its critics claim: it offers a rock-steady deity who orchestrates absolutely everything, including illness (or home foreclosure!), by a logic we may not understand but don't have to second-guess. Our satisfaction — and our purpose — is fulfilled simply by "glorifying" him. In the 1700s, Puritan preacher Jonathan Edwards invested Calvinism with a rapturous near mysticism. Yet it was soon overtaken in the U.S. by movements like Methodism that were more impressed with human will. Calvinist-descended liberal bodies like the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) discovered other emphases, while Evangelicalism's loss of appetite for rigid doctrine — and the triumph of that friendly, fuzzy Jesus — seemed to relegate hard-core Reformed preaching (Reformed operates as a loose synonym for Calvinist) to a few crotchety Southern churches.
No more. Neo-Calvinist ministers and authors don't operate quite on a Rick Warren scale. But, notes Ted Olsen, a managing editor at Christianity Today, "everyone knows where the energy and the passion are in the Evangelical world" — with the pioneering new-Calvinist John Piper of Minneapolis, Seattle's pugnacious Mark Driscoll and Albert Mohler, head of the Southern Seminary of the huge Southern Baptist Convention. The Calvinist-flavored ESV Study Bible sold out its first printing, and Reformed blogs like Between Two Worlds are among cyber-Christendom's hottest links.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
“Men are either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness.”
Are slaves alive? If they are offered freedom, can they accept?
On FR
Amen.
"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure" -- Isaiah 46:9-10
" But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth" -- 2 Thessalonians 2:13" That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been" -- Ecclesiastes 3:15
We are complex. I don’t feel like a slave to righteousness. I feel that I choose it daily and choose the way to exercise it. You are not of the robot persuasion, I hope.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
The natural man is blind and deaf. He possesses a heart of stone and his mind is filled with superstition and rebellion.
The spiritual man who has been reborn by the Holy Spirit has been given new ears and new eyes and a heart of flesh and his mind has been renewed to understand God's word, to enable him to obey, repent and believe.
If that makes me a "robot," then all I can say is "Thank you, dear Lord. Thank you."
"“Our righteousness is in Him, and our hope depends, not upon the exercise of grace in us, but upon the fullness of grace and love in Him, and upon His obedience unto death” -- John Newton, pastor and author of "Amazing Grace."
Much of your understanding of Scripture is not Scriptural, whether it is on someone else’s thread or your own.
That a person must be born again to understand the things of God, I agree.
But when Jesus raised Lazarus so that they might believe, was belief a gift he gave them after regeneration, or belief something they were responsible for?
When Jesus said, “I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me”, was Jesus lying? Was he mocking them? Was he claiming that he would give them belief?
Or did he do miracles so that they might believe, and those who rejected him would be responsible for their unbelief?
Jesus said, “You refuse to come to me that you may have life”, not, “You do not have life, so you refuse to come”!
"They?" Do you consider yourself among God's elect, a member of His family?
All Trinitarian Christians are elect. Whether or not they know that for sure, or only guess at it, isn't really the question. God's grace through faith in Christ is what saves. Grace saves, which often brings with it a confident assurance of the power and intention of the Triune God to redeem those whom He has named as His own from before the foundation of the world.
Sometimes that assurance is hid from men, and that's too bad. But if they are Trinitarian Christians, they are still among the elect of God since true faith in Christ is the emblem of our adoption by God.
I always say that I will be more willing to listen to a Calvinist who says he believes in the 5 points and that he is not one of the elect.
While that sounds clever, it is gibberish. To believe the Gospel is to be saved. And THE FIVE POINTS OF CALVINISM are simply a clear declaration of Biblical teaching. Nothing more; nothing less.
1) All men are fallen and none is righteous, save Jesus Christ. 2) God saves whom He will for His glory by imputing Christ's righteousness to His family. 3) Christ has redeemed His sheep, the children of God, through His obedience and His righteousness and His good work on the cross. 4) Grace accomplishes all God intends; grace does not fail. 5) Christ will lose none whom the Father has given to Him.
That's the assurance found in Scripture in which we rejoice.
What was that you were saying about the natural man...?
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" -- Titus 3:5
Even our "work of faith" is God-given. Unless a person has been born by the Holy Spirit, the Bible remains a puzzle to him, and salvation just a riddle.
Then refute it, instead of just rejecting it.
Where does it say we are given faith and belief as gifts after God’s secret act of regeneration? Shouldn’t there be at least ONE verse that teaches that explicitly? One?!
Meanwhile, there are hundreds that say we must believe, and our salvation is conditional upon our believing.
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard this, he marveled and said to those who followed him, “Truly, I tell you, with no one in Israel have I found such faith.
Found, not given.
Mat 8:13 And to the centurion Jesus said, “Go; let it be done for you as you have believed.” And the servant was healed at that very moment.
Matt 9:
2 And behold, some people brought to him a paralytic, lying on a bed. And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.”
22Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, “Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And instantly the woman was made well.
27 And as Jesus passed on from there, two blind men followed him, crying aloud, “Have mercy on us, Son of David.” 28When he entered the house, the blind men came to him, and Jesus said to them, “Do you believe that I am able to do this?” They said to him, “Yes, Lord.” 29 Then he touched their eyes, saying, “According to your faith be it done to you.” 30And their eyes were opened.
I'm glad you brought up Lazarus. That is the picture of regeneration. That's what Christ does, he raises people from the dead. And to those who were witnesses it's objective evidence of his power and so they are left without an excuse even if they do not believe in him.
Jesus said, “You refuse to come to me that you may have life”, not, “You do not have life, so you refuse to come”!
Stop with the simplistic antinomies! It's a disgrace to the Scriptural witness. It shows a juvenile understanding of the story of redemption.
As a friend of mine used to say, why bother creating a work of art? Just imagine it, and go on to the next thing.
It's not natural for us to understand how the spirit works within us, because we are born into the world of material things and spend part of our lives not being born again. Someday it will all be clear.
Lots of claims, but no verses.
6But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
14How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!"
It takes a peculiar blindness to turn that into, "For God so loved the elect...", or into, "For those he saved he gave belief"!
It is easy, on the other hand, for someone who does not know the pattern to make a mistake.
All men have access to the pattern -- God's holy Scriptures. And all men make mistakes. Whether or not those mistakes have been paid for by Christ is up to God, not men.
Those who have been given the Holy Spirit to lead them will understand, repent, believe and be saved. Those who have not been given the Holy Spirit to lead them, but instead are perfectly content to lead themselves wherever they want to go, will not understand, repent, believe nor be saved.
Beyond that, none of us knows the names of the elect but God. We can be reasonably certain of our own salvation since Christ said that if a man believes in Him as Lord, King and Savior then that man is saved. So we know, as much as is possible, our own heart.
Other hearts, and other times, are just guesswork on our part. We know men by their fruit, whether they be good and of God, or evil and not of God.
But since none of us starts out understanding and believing, we reserve judgment for all men's eventual destination because none of us knows where God will bring an unbeliever tomorrow. Our responsibility is to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all men, everywhere, and thereby to rejoice that Christ will lose none of His sheep whom the Father has given to Him to bring home.
All in all, a marvelous plan by God, ordained for His glory from before the foundation of the world.
(This conversation is a wonderful diversion from the nerve-racking hockey game. The U.S. just scored to tie the game and take it into overtime!)
Even Nicodemus understood that.
How can these things be?
That one sentence revealed the truth of double predestination to me. It appears overwhelming. Those whom He has named to be among His family will obey, repent and believe. Those who haven't been named to His family will not want to obey, repent nor believe. They remain perfectly satisfied in their denial.
Ultimately, everyone gets what they want. Especially God.
How can these things be?
Exactly. Are we to think the Holy Spirit works according to our will or God's will?
Then refute it with a single, clear-cut verse of scripture saying we are born again by a secret act of God to belief. I may be juvenile, but scripture doesn't lie about the plan of salvation. Sola Scriptura - if it is critical, it is also plain!
Calvin based his theory of salvation on the idea we are "dead" in our sin, so that we must be first born again to belief. In doing so, he skipped all the scriptures talking about us as slaves of sin, or servants of sin, or sick & needing healing. THAT was juvenile, but that happens when someone who is 26 writes a Systematic Theology text.
11And he said, "There was a man who had two sons. 12And the younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.' And he divided his property between them. 13Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living. 14And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. 16And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything.
17"But when he came to himself, he said, 'How many of my father’s hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants."' 20And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21And the son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.' 22But the father said to his servants, 'Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. 23And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. 24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to celebrate.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.