We even have Roman Catholics on this forum speaking up and wondering why a few RC apologists are taking offense at the correct and accepted term of "Roman Catholic."
Posted on 02/26/2010 1:08:31 AM PST by Gamecock
So I have a question about terminology.
Some of our Catholic FRiends get upset when we Prods use the term Roman Catholic, insisting that the term is derogatory, insulting, etc.
What I would like to discuss is why do Catholics complain about the term Roman Catholic, when the term is in such wide use inside of the Catholic church?
Thoughts?
We even have Roman Catholics on this forum speaking up and wondering why a few RC apologists are taking offense at the correct and accepted term of "Roman Catholic."
“I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Are you saying there millions of Buddhists in Asia (Japan? Vietnam? Elsewhere?) who contribute to the maintenance of Catholic church buildings? I am not aware of any such, but perhaps you know more than I.”
“cultural orthodoxy”
LOL. Would you prefer Goad?
or Goad, Sir?
or Sir Goad?
Just kidding.
So you admit to maintaining Druid and pre-Christian European pagan cult practices in association with your Christianity? Please explain how that is any different from Asian Catholics maintaining Buddhist cultural practices without being either a hypocrite or a racist.
Buddhism denies the sufficiency of the Redemption work of Christ-—it denies Christ. It is idolatry, robbing from the Glory due to Christ alone, just as any other idolatrous system.
Christians repent from their idols to serve the true and living God.
The non Latin Rite Catholics are also under the See of Rome which makes them part of the Catholic Church, not separate denominations. I believe NYer is a Byzantine Catholic and she can probably explain the better than I. This Wikipedia article offers a very good description of the Eastern Rite Churches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches
As for people keeping some of the spiritual practices of non Christian beliefs I admit to having a problem with that. And I hope the Bishops in that region speak strongly against the weakening and comingling of the faith.
I think the main criticism of multi denominational Protestantism comes about because though all claim the Bible as their final authority there is such a variance of beliefs one can not help but question; if everything necessary for our salvation can be made known by the plain reading of Scripture, why do so many reach different conclusions?
And even those Protestant denominations which do have a confession of faith or articles of faith which outline clearly the tenents of that denomination are being torn apart now by those who believe Christians must bow to the demands of the secular world. And I know Catholics are not immune to this. But as a whole we are a lot less vulnerable to it, because there is a teaching magesterium.
The good thing for Protestants is usually the dissenters go on and form their own denomination. Or join one that shares their beliefs. For Catholics they usually stick around having fancy pageants where they play priest. Or go off on some nuttering idiocy about the Divine Feminism. But they don’t want to just leave, nope they want the Church to become what they demand she become. So they stick around like 10 miles of bad road rash.
But anyone who is familiar with the teachings of the Church can say with full confidence that these mooks are not Catholic. There is somebody to say that the conclusions they have reached are wrong. That Jesus did not die on the Cross and get His bones scattered by wild dogs in the desert. That two men may not ever, ever be married. That abortion is a grave evil.
Now your church may teach that Christ truly rose from the dead. That only a man and woman may join in marriage. That abortion is the slaughter of innocents. But there may be within the same denomination a variance of beliefs regarding such things as Christ’s divinity, homosexual marriage, abortion, and birth control. And not just amongst the congregation but amongst the clergy and others charged with teaching and safe guarding the faith.
So you have division within the denomination. And too often nobody has the authority to censure them.
But you asked how having separate Catholic Rites is different from having separate denominations. Protestant have separate churches because they have different beliefs on issues which many consider central to salvation. Issues such as: Baptism, Holy Communion, Justification, and Predestination. And it would be dishonest to remain in a denomination that taught Baptism was a sacrament when you believed it was not one. And no self respecting minister would teach that it was simply a matter of personal opinion and it could be both.
But all Catholic rites share the same beliefs but they may use a different form to express that belief. For example, as I understand it, Latin Rite Catholics are the ministers of the sacrament of marriage. In the Eastern Rite the priest is the minister. But both rites believe marriage is a sacrament. The essential belief remains the same.
I hope that helps clear things up a bit. God bless you.
I
So you admit to maintaining Druid and pre-Christian European pagan cult practices in association with your Christianity? Please explain how that is any different from Asian Catholics maintaining Buddhist cultural practices without being either a hypocrite or a racist. Asian Catholics are entitled the same "get out of hell free" card for maintaining indigenous cultural practices as holier than thou American Protestants and "reformists" who still maintain European pre-Christian pagan practices.
It may have started here in the U.S as a way of being distinguished from Old Catholic which is a heretical sect not in communion with Rome.
And I don’t take offense at the term Roman Catholic unless offense is meant.
“So you admit to maintaining Druid and pre-Christian European pagan cult practices in association with your Christianity? “
Druidism = antichrist
paganism = antichrist
Buddhism = antichrist
Shintoism = antichrist
Voodoo = antichrist
Amen. Pretty scary when people who call themselves "Christian" don't understand that fact.
But were mingled among the heathen, and learned their works. And they served their idols: which were a snare unto them... Save us, O LORD our God, and gather us from among the heathen, to give thanks unto thy holy name, and to triumph in thy praise. Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD." -- Psalms 106:34-36;47-48"They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them:
And no one else.
So I write:
“Christians repent from their idols to serve the true and living God.” [1 Thess. 1:9, 10; etc.]
And the comeback from a Catholic is:
“So you admit to maintaining Druid and pre-Christian European pagan cult practices in association with your Christianity?”
I think this error results from not bothering to read Paul.
I am talking about Western Christians who still hole the pagan and pre-Christian practices of:
Cristmas Trees, a hold over to the winter practices of pagans and Druids. Pagans used to perform sacrifices at the foot of a tree to Thor, the god of thunder. Entrails from the sacrifices(often human) would be arrayed on the branches of the tree to predict the future.
Holly Wreaths, a hold over to the pre-Christian Roman and Greek religions and holiday practices.
Yule Logs - On the darkest day of year, the Winter Solstice, pre-Christians would light a large log on fire to help keep away the evil spirits as they waited through the longest night for the sun to rise. This symbolized the sun's victory over darkness. The cinders from the burnt log were thought to protect homes from lightning and the evil powers of the devil.
Easter Eggs and the Easter Bunny - Eggs, like rabbits and hares, are fertility symbols of extreme antiquity. Since birds lay eggs and rabbits and hares give birth to large litters in the early spring, these became symbols of the rising fertility of the earth at the Vernal Equinox.
New Years Celebrations are among the oldest pre-Christian traditions. They were celebrated to mark the passing of the Winter Solistice.
Thanksgiving – The origins of Thanksgiving are lost in antiquity. Harvest festivals exist in nearly every culture and are not limited to agrarian cultures. In Asia, the Chinese Moon Festival is one of the most widely-spread harvest festivals in the world. In India, Pongal in January, Holi in February-March and Onam in August-September are a few famous harvest festivals. Numerous religious holidays, such as Sukkot, have their roots in harvest festivals.
You my friend are no different and no better than the Asian Catholics you so haughtily and persistently criticize for their practices.
I am talking about Western Christians who still hole the pagan and pre-Christian practices of:
Cristmas Trees, a hold over to the winter practices of pagans and Druids. Pagans used to perform sacrifices at the foot of a tree to Thor, the god of thunder. Entrails from the sacrifices(often human) would be arrayed on the branches of the tree to predict the future.
Holly Wreaths, a hold over to the pre-Christian Roman and Greek religions and holiday practices.
Yule Logs - On the darkest day of year, the Winter Solstice, pre-Christians would light a large log on fire to help keep away the evil spirits as they waited through the longest night for the sun to rise. This symbolized the sun's victory over darkness. The cinders from the burnt log were thought to protect homes from lightning and the evil powers of the devil.
Easter Eggs and the Easter Bunny - Eggs, like rabbits and hares, are fertility symbols of extreme antiquity. Since birds lay eggs and rabbits and hares give birth to large litters in the early spring, these became symbols of the rising fertility of the earth at the Vernal Equinox.
New Years Celebrations are among the oldest pre-Christian traditions. They were celebrated to mark the passing of the Winter Solistice.
Thanksgiving – The origins of Thanksgiving are lost in antiquity. Harvest festivals exist in nearly every culture and are not limited to agrarian cultures. In Asia, the Chinese Moon Festival is one of the most widely-spread harvest festivals in the world. In India, Pongal in January, Holi in February-March and Onam in August-September are a few famous harvest festivals. Numerous religious holidays, such as Sukkot, have their roots in harvest festivals.
You my friend are no different and no better than the Asian Catholics you so haughtily and persistently criticize for their practices.
The only thing I know along those lines concerns an elite of so-called Asian Liberation Theologians, the foremost of whom was Tissa Balasuriya, who was excommunicated for his errors by Pope John Paul II. Later, as I heard, he retracted his offensive published materials, and the excommunication was lifted.
I don't know that he has millions, thousands, or even hundreds in his following. His supporters are "the usual subjects" who are surprisingly non-Asian, and have mostly been disciplined by the CDF and/or have excommunicated themselves: Rosemary Radford-Ruether, Elizabeth Schussler Fiorenza, Leonardo Boff, Matthew Fox, Edward Schillebeeck, Karl Rahner, Raimondo Pannikar and Raymond Brown.
As I said, the expected aging-academic-apostate Rogue's Gallery.
If you want to say the discipline in such cases has been neither swift, clear, not comprehensive--- then regrettably you're right.
However Asian Liberation/pluralism supporters accuse the present pope, Benedict, of being a "fascist" for opposing Balasuriya, and say Benedict is attempting to lead the Catholic Church in a "fundamentalist" direction.
:o)
Cause for renewed hope!
In the midst of a worldwide battle.
Since we don’t practice the things in the list you gave, I couldn’t figure out what you were talking about. I preach against the things in the list, at least the way you describe them, because we agree that they are pagan.
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