Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

WHO REALLY IS 'ANTI-CATHOLIC?'
Alpha and Omega Ministries ^ | 1-23-10 | James Swan

Posted on 02/24/2010 9:36:26 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg

Back in one my old philosophy classes I recall lengthy discussions as to the relationship between names and reality, and then spinning around for hours contemplating the brain teaser of what it means to "mean" something about anything. The aftermath: an entire class of young minds slipped further into skepticism, as if the reality each twenty something experienced was completely unknowable. Of course, arriving at the conclusion that ultimate reality is unknowable is... to know something about ultimate reality! Ah, the futility of the sinful mind in its continual construction of Babel towers. Without the presupposition "He is there and He is not silent" the sinful mind does what it does best: it creates a worldview that can't account for the reality it truly experiences.

Despite the aspirin needed after attending such classes, it did force me early on to think about ostensive definitions, and the carefulness with which one defines terms. With theology, correctly using terms takes on the greatest moral imperative: one is speaking about the very holy God that created the universe. Think of terms that are used to describe Biblical doctrine, like "Trinity." One is using a term to describe a collection of factual data given by the Holy Spirit. If ever one should use caution, it should be with the construction of theological terms.

Consider the designator "Catholic Church." The Westminster Confession of Faith explains, "The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all." The Belgic Confession states that one of its primary distinguishing marks is the "pure preaching of the gospel." If one were pressed to point to that vital factor placing one in the Catholic Church, it is the work of Christ and His Gospel. It is the Gospel which unites the members of the Catholic Church. It is the work of Christ, grasped onto by faith that links those in the Catholic Church together. This pure Gospel is of such importance, that the apostle Paul states if anyone (including himself) preaches another Gospel, he should be eternally condemned.

But what about throwing the word "Roman" into the the mix? The addition of one simple word adds in an ingredient that changes the taste, so to speak. In this short mp3 clip, Tim Staples touched on what "Roman Catholic Church" means. He says "Roman Catholic" has popularly and un-technically come to be synonymous with the term "Catholic". He states "Roman Catholic" popularly means "you're in union with the bishop of Rome." Recent mega-convert Francis Beckwith concurs:

One of my pet peeves is the intentional overuse of "Rome," "Roman," "Romanist," etc. by Protestant critics of Catholic theology. Here's why: the Catholic Church is a collection of many churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome. It's catechism--The Catechism of the Catholic Church--is that of all these churches that are in communion with one another and with the Supreme Pontiff, Pope Benedict XVI. The theology found in that text, therefore, is not Roman Catholic theology. It is Catholic theology. That's the way the Church understands itself. Common courtesy suggests that those who are critical of that theology summon the respect to refer to it as such"[source].

I admit that I've often equated the two terms. I've used the term "Catholic" to describe Roman Catholics. It has taken a conscious effort on my part to keep the terms distinguished. On the other hand, I'm not sure how it's possible to "overuse" the word "Roman" when referring to those who actively and overtly pledge obedience to bishop of Rome. Beckwith is basically saying "Catholic" is the property of the papacy, and they will define the parameters of the word.

Whose theological usage reflects the teaching of sacred Scripture? Is union with the bishop of Rome an element of theological data mined from the Scriptures? Hardly. It's an extra-Biblical presupposition hoisted upon the text. One has to first assume the validity of the papacy and then read it back into the sacred text. The popular definition as described by Mr. Staples and Dr. Beckwith is entirely unbiblical.

There's one other theological term being thrown around with this: anti-Catholic. Recently Roman Catholic apologist Dave Armstrong stated he "temporarily suspended [his] ongoing policy of not interacting with anti-Catholic arguments and polemics." Well, after I ceased shaking in fear over this announcement, I scrolled through Armstrong's multiple diatribes to see his precise meaning of the term "anti-Catholic." His exact formula appears to boil down to: "One who denies that the Catholic Church and its theology is properly classifiable as Christian" [source].

By applying Armstrong's standard, an Anti-Mormon would be one who denies that the Mormon church and its theology is properly classifiable as Christian. Dave would probably say it's a good thing to be anti-Mormon. So, simply using the term "anti" as Armstrong suggests is either good or bad depending on one's presuppositions. According to Dave's definition, I would say it's a good thing to be anti-Catholic in the same way Dave would probably hold it's a good thing to be anti-Mormon.

Armstong's seemingly endless qualifications and examination of the term "anti-Catholic," as well as "his own definition" provoked me to apply what has been discussed above, and consider an alternate theological definition. If "Catholic" is connected symbiotically with the Gospel, wouldn't an anti-Catholic be someone who either denies the Gospel or denies it as that which unites the people of God into the universal Church? If a particular church overtly espouses a different Gospel, according to Paul, let him be anathema. If understood this way, it would be Roman Catholics who are anti-Catholics. Their Council of Trent explicitly rejected the Gospel in an official declaration.

How does one precisely refer to those in communion with Rome and obedient to the Bishop of Rome? Contrary to Beckwith, I've seriously considered using the word "Romanist." The term describes those devoted to the papacy quite succinctly. However, I was informed by another zealous defender of the papacy that "...many non-Catholic apologists are truly bigots at heart and they use 'Roman' as a derogatory insult. Their bigotry becomes even more clear when they use Romish or Romanist." No one wants to be thought of as a bigot. However, in the same Catholic Answers broadcast cited above, Tim Staples and his co-host positively referred to themselves as "Romanists" introducing their "open forum for non-Catholics" show, in which they only take calls from those outside of their worldview. Here is the mp3 clip. Perhaps they were kidding, although it's hard to tell.

I'm tempted to simply start using the term anti-Catholic for the reasons outlined. I can think of no better theological phrase to describe those who inject obedience to the papacy into the term "Catholic Church."


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology
KEYWORDS: anticatholic; freformed; usancgldslvr
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 1,381-1,399 next last
To: UriÂ’el-2012

No one would confuse your actions or behavior with “everlasting lovingkindness” or “compassion”.


81 posted on 02/24/2010 10:59:52 AM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998
I'm truly sorry to hear that, dear brother in Christ!
82 posted on 02/24/2010 11:02:41 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl

Would you follow the dictates of men and tradition over the bible?


83 posted on 02/24/2010 11:02:56 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: DManA
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.

The Greeks say the same Nicene creed. It was primarily written by bishops from the Eastern part of the Roman Empire.

84 posted on 02/24/2010 11:03:36 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl
Out of curiosity, do any of you consider me to be "anti-Catholic?"

I would say that you have definite opposition to certain areas of Catholic doctrine, but that is normal for any non-Catholic (or non-anything for that matter). But no, I've never considered you an anti-Catholic.

85 posted on 02/24/2010 11:04:35 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998; 1000 silverlings; Campion; Quix; wmfights; the_conscience; Ken4TA
No one would confuse your actions or behavior with “everlasting lovingkindness” or “compassion”.

Alynsky:

Never discuss the scriptures;

just attack the messenger.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
86 posted on 02/24/2010 11:05:20 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: 1000 silverlings
I eschew all the doctrines and traditions of men across the board. I'm just a Christian, plain and simple.
87 posted on 02/24/2010 11:06:55 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee
Thank you so very much for your encouragement, dear brother in Christ!
88 posted on 02/24/2010 11:07:37 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: UriÂ’el-2012
Never discuss the scriptures; just attack the messenger.

I'm sorry that you didn't see the threads I put up earlier this week addressing the scriptural basis of Catholic teaching. Then again, you're at odds with your co-religionists over the truth of the Holy Trinity, so I don't blame you.

89 posted on 02/24/2010 11:08:06 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl; wagglebee

I agree with wagglebee. While you’re at odds with certain Catholic teachings, I’d say your presence on these threads have been cordial, and, for the most part, charitable.


90 posted on 02/24/2010 11:09:21 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("If you know how not to pray, take Joseph as your master, and you will not go astray." - St. Teresa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: UriÂ’el-2012
Attacking the messenger is as old as the scriptures

Acts 7:52

Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

Luke 13: 34

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not

91 posted on 02/24/2010 11:10:16 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl

Do you consider the Pope and the Catholic magisterium the ultimate authority in interpreting the scripture? Do you pray to anyone other than God through Christ?


92 posted on 02/24/2010 11:12:45 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 87 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480
Thank you so very much for your encouragement, dear brother in Christ!


93 posted on 02/24/2010 11:13:15 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: vladimir998

The Catholic Church is like the New York Yankees x 100, if the Catholic Church was a baseball team they would have won every championship every year. The tradition and success of the Catholic Church can not be matched by any of the “expansion” clubs.

Naturally, this leads to envy and hatred by the wanna-be’s, pretenders to the throne all. It’s harder to be a Catholic, there’s more work and study involved, there’s guidelines and traditions to follow, which lead to more consistency.

Catholics have a Catechism to follow, the Yankees don’t have players with hair down their back scruffy facial hair. Some would prefer to play for another team and be “individuals”, some would like to be individuals and interpret their Bible themselves, leading to a billion churches of one member.

The Yankees pass the torch from a Joe DiMaggio to a Mickey Mantle the way the Catholic Church passes the torch from one Pope to another.

At the heart of the Yankee and Catholic hater is jealousy, whether the Yankee hater or anti-Catholic realize it or not. In their hearts they know who the best team is, but they still refuse to embrace the tradition and the consistency and excellence of the “team”. Some folks will never be Yankee material, some folks will never do the work to join the team that Jesus Captains, the Catholic Church.


94 posted on 02/24/2010 11:21:45 AM PST by word_warrior_bob (You can now see my amazing doggie and new puppy on my homepage!! Come say hello to Jake & Sonny)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: UriÂ’el-2012

Your knowledge of scripture ranks right up there with your ability to spell Alinsky.


95 posted on 02/24/2010 11:24:08 AM PST by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Pyro7480; Alamo-Girl
While you’re at odds with certain Catholic teachings, I’d say your presence on these threads have been cordial, and, for the most part, charitable.

I agree, there are a great many non-Catholics here who are open-minded enough to debate doctrinal differences and A-G is certainly one of them.

However, there ARE some on here that can only be described as bigots and they have a documented recorded of falsifying facts, fabricating falsehoods and outright bigotry.

96 posted on 02/24/2010 11:24:45 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: Alamo-Girl; Quix; the_conscience
If you insist on reading the scriptures for yourself, led by the HS, and do not follow the teachings of Rome, you have a "billy-bob church of one", there's no getting around it.

But the one who condemns you with that attitude is not biased, on no.

97 posted on 02/24/2010 11:30:55 AM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Eckleburg

I don’t consider any one of us as ant-Catholic. I have nothing personal against any member of the Catholic Church. I am anti-Catholicism as practiced by the Church.


98 posted on 02/24/2010 11:40:58 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: 1000 silverlings

as always, it’s one of their favorite tactics.


99 posted on 02/24/2010 11:43:42 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Judith Anne

Welcome to that club...


100 posted on 02/24/2010 11:47:56 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 1,381-1,399 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson