Posted on 02/24/2010 9:36:26 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
Back in one my old philosophy classes I recall lengthy discussions as to the relationship between names and reality, and then spinning around for hours contemplating the brain teaser of what it means to "mean" something about anything. The aftermath: an entire class of young minds slipped further into skepticism, as if the reality each twenty something experienced was completely unknowable. Of course, arriving at the conclusion that ultimate reality is unknowable is... to know something about ultimate reality! Ah, the futility of the sinful mind in its continual construction of Babel towers. Without the presupposition "He is there and He is not silent" the sinful mind does what it does best: it creates a worldview that can't account for the reality it truly experiences.
Despite the aspirin needed after attending such classes, it did force me early on to think about ostensive definitions, and the carefulness with which one defines terms. With theology, correctly using terms takes on the greatest moral imperative: one is speaking about the very holy God that created the universe. Think of terms that are used to describe Biblical doctrine, like "Trinity." One is using a term to describe a collection of factual data given by the Holy Spirit. If ever one should use caution, it should be with the construction of theological terms.
Consider the designator "Catholic Church." The Westminster Confession of Faith explains, "The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all." The Belgic Confession states that one of its primary distinguishing marks is the "pure preaching of the gospel." If one were pressed to point to that vital factor placing one in the Catholic Church, it is the work of Christ and His Gospel. It is the Gospel which unites the members of the Catholic Church. It is the work of Christ, grasped onto by faith that links those in the Catholic Church together. This pure Gospel is of such importance, that the apostle Paul states if anyone (including himself) preaches another Gospel, he should be eternally condemned.
But what about throwing the word "Roman" into the the mix? The addition of one simple word adds in an ingredient that changes the taste, so to speak. In this short mp3 clip, Tim Staples touched on what "Roman Catholic Church" means. He says "Roman Catholic" has popularly and un-technically come to be synonymous with the term "Catholic". He states "Roman Catholic" popularly means "you're in union with the bishop of Rome." Recent mega-convert Francis Beckwith concurs:
One of my pet peeves is the intentional overuse of "Rome," "Roman," "Romanist," etc. by Protestant critics of Catholic theology. Here's why: the Catholic Church is a collection of many churches in communion with the Bishop of Rome. It's catechism--The Catechism of the Catholic Church--is that of all these churches that are in communion with one another and with the Supreme Pontiff, Pope Benedict XVI. The theology found in that text, therefore, is not Roman Catholic theology. It is Catholic theology. That's the way the Church understands itself. Common courtesy suggests that those who are critical of that theology summon the respect to refer to it as such"[source].
I admit that I've often equated the two terms. I've used the term "Catholic" to describe Roman Catholics. It has taken a conscious effort on my part to keep the terms distinguished. On the other hand, I'm not sure how it's possible to "overuse" the word "Roman" when referring to those who actively and overtly pledge obedience to bishop of Rome. Beckwith is basically saying "Catholic" is the property of the papacy, and they will define the parameters of the word.
Whose theological usage reflects the teaching of sacred Scripture? Is union with the bishop of Rome an element of theological data mined from the Scriptures? Hardly. It's an extra-Biblical presupposition hoisted upon the text. One has to first assume the validity of the papacy and then read it back into the sacred text. The popular definition as described by Mr. Staples and Dr. Beckwith is entirely unbiblical.
There's one other theological term being thrown around with this: anti-Catholic. Recently Roman Catholic apologist Dave Armstrong stated he "temporarily suspended [his] ongoing policy of not interacting with anti-Catholic arguments and polemics." Well, after I ceased shaking in fear over this announcement, I scrolled through Armstrong's multiple diatribes to see his precise meaning of the term "anti-Catholic." His exact formula appears to boil down to: "One who denies that the Catholic Church and its theology is properly classifiable as Christian" [source].
By applying Armstrong's standard, an Anti-Mormon would be one who denies that the Mormon church and its theology is properly classifiable as Christian. Dave would probably say it's a good thing to be anti-Mormon. So, simply using the term "anti" as Armstrong suggests is either good or bad depending on one's presuppositions. According to Dave's definition, I would say it's a good thing to be anti-Catholic in the same way Dave would probably hold it's a good thing to be anti-Mormon.
Armstong's seemingly endless qualifications and examination of the term "anti-Catholic," as well as "his own definition" provoked me to apply what has been discussed above, and consider an alternate theological definition. If "Catholic" is connected symbiotically with the Gospel, wouldn't an anti-Catholic be someone who either denies the Gospel or denies it as that which unites the people of God into the universal Church? If a particular church overtly espouses a different Gospel, according to Paul, let him be anathema. If understood this way, it would be Roman Catholics who are anti-Catholics. Their Council of Trent explicitly rejected the Gospel in an official declaration.
How does one precisely refer to those in communion with Rome and obedient to the Bishop of Rome? Contrary to Beckwith, I've seriously considered using the word "Romanist." The term describes those devoted to the papacy quite succinctly. However, I was informed by another zealous defender of the papacy that "...many non-Catholic apologists are truly bigots at heart and they use 'Roman' as a derogatory insult. Their bigotry becomes even more clear when they use Romish or Romanist." No one wants to be thought of as a bigot. However, in the same Catholic Answers broadcast cited above, Tim Staples and his co-host positively referred to themselves as "Romanists" introducing their "open forum for non-Catholics" show, in which they only take calls from those outside of their worldview. Here is the mp3 clip. Perhaps they were kidding, although it's hard to tell.
I'm tempted to simply start using the term anti-Catholic for the reasons outlined. I can think of no better theological phrase to describe those who inject obedience to the papacy into the term "Catholic Church."
My apology, I should have said post 637. Whatever Quix’s last post was.
“Tyrannical authoritarianism in the name of RELIGION is NEVER satisfied. “
Now they’re appealing to the powers that be to eliminate us. Par for course.
Not something I’d recommend.
However, Prottys are
FAR FROM IN CHARGE of the Papists, much less the Rabid Papists hereon.
Why are these public sinners not It must mean that the leadership ofWhy do you belong to an enterprise
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
which lauds and praises openly
public sinners with honors ?
rebuked and excommunicated ?
the RCC agrees with the public sin.
Disagreeing on what is Catholic doctrine is something different altogether.
Only the Catholic Church gets to determine what are the doctrines of the Catholic Church. Efforts to redefine the teachings of the Catholic Church are inherently, immutably deceitful.
Very true. Far too often the bigots try to force us to disprove a negative that is arrived at after attributing doctrine that isn’t even factual.
if I do I'll have to cover it with the blood of the Lamb
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Working harder to make a safe place
ONLY
for Rabidly hostile Anti-Protty bigotry yet again?
Which part of thin skins on the open threads is hard to understand?
Why should anti-Catholic bigotry like your posts be a part of FR?
Why should anti-Catholic bigotry be a part of FR?
I have no idea what you mean.
Why should anti-Catholic bigotry be a part of FR?
Historical Vatican tyrannical !!!!CONTROL!!!! PHREAQUE COMPULSIONS are alive and well and
screaming for yet another INQUISITION RIGHT HERE ON FR.
Who is thin-skinned? We aren’t the ones who get hysterical and post in big blue fonts every times someone disagrees with us.
Thank God Almighty (First Person of the Blessed Trinity) you’re not talking about the Catholic Church.
You wrote:
“Vlad — you are misinterpreting Uri. If a person believes that the Holy Spirit is not a separate person, but the Godhead is one person, one nature with different facets or modes (like The Father or the Son) and the Holy Spirit is not a separate person, then they are preaching what they believe to be true.”
Then I am not misrepresenting him. He is misrepresenting Christianity. I said:
“You do not preach the word of God.”
Check.
“You simply preach your own sectarian beliefs and call them the word of God.”
Check.
“Which you’re probably reading through the bottom of the bottle after having drained it.”
Maybe it isn’t through the bottom of a bottle, but its through the cesspool of heresy in any case.
I see . . .
clearly
Y’all are INSISTING, !!!!DEMANDING!!!!
YET AGAIN
THAT THE VATICAN-RABID-PAPIST DICTIONARY
REIGN SUPREME ON FR AND THAT ALL MUST KOWTOW TO IT MOST
GROVELINGLY . . . including FR’s authorities.
Verrrrryyyyy impressive.
The "enterprise" you speak of is a consortium of dozens of churches, most of which ARE NOT Catholic.
Why do YOU belong to an organization which denies the Holy Trinity?
Why are these public sinners not rebuked and excommunicated ?
Can you recommend someplace that DOESN'T have any sinners?
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