Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan

” Jesus? point throughout is that there is no exercise of faith in himself as the supernatural Savior, no repentance, and no true discipleship apart from this new birth...active faith in Christ is its immediate fruit, not its immediate cause...”

No, actually, in that exchange Jesus said, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” Limited atonement? Not hardly. “God so loved the world...whoever believes”.

He then said, “For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” Again, we see God doesn’t hate the world, but wants to rescue it - to save it through him. And how?

“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Do you want to be born again? Do you want God to change your heart? “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

Whoever believes. Not whoever is on my list.

Is faith a gift, or something we have in response to God’s revelation? Here are 227 verses...enjoy:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4102&t=ESV


6,722 posted on 01/27/2010 8:22:33 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6698 | View Replies ]


To: Mr Rogers; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg
I'd like to offer this passage for your meditations:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. - John 1:11-12

On this point I find myself agreeing with the Calvinists. A man can grit his teeth, put his hands over his ears, jump up and down, humming and saying repeatedly to himself "I believe." That does not make it so.

You said:

Is faith a gift, or something we have in response to God’s revelation? Here are 227 verses...enjoy:

I would say there is the grace of faith which all Christians have to believe (man can't believe of his own will) - and then there is the gift of faith which is given to some but not all (gifts of the Holy Spirit in Corinthians.)

The former is part of our salvation and sanctification (however your theology defines such things) but the latter is the unflinching trust in God that only a few have.

My mother was one of these so gifted in faith. When she prayed about anything, she laid it down at the Cross and did not pick it up again. It was a done deal. Obviously, there were many miracles in her life.

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

6,726 posted on 01/27/2010 8:47:41 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6722 | View Replies ]

To: Mr Rogers; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg

“Whoever believes. Not whoever is on my list”

Ephesians 1:11 is perhaps the clearest expression of the concept of the sovereignty of God, though there are other verses that teach the sovereignty of God (Ps 115:3; Prov 16:9, 33; Dan 4:34-35). In verse 11 Paul continues the theme of God’s predestining us in Christ for salvation. Paul says that such a marking off of the believer beforehand was done “according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will.” The clause beginning with “who” is a relative clause modifying him. According to this verse, believers are predestined to salvation in accord with the purpose of God, and God does all things, including predestining to salvation, according to the counsel of his will. The clause, then, broadens the scope of the verse to speak of God’s sovereign control not only over election to salvation, but over all else.

As to the phrase according to the counsel of his will, the distinction between “counsel” and “will” is that the former involves purpose and deliberation while the latter simply denotes willing. The basic thrust of the phrase is that God chooses after deliberating on the wisest course of action to accomplish his purpose. Thus, this verse refers to a plan resulting from deliberation. This verse, then, indicates that what occurs is foreordained by God, and nothing external to God such as the foreseen actions or merits of God’s creatures determines his choices. God deliberates, chooses and accomplishes all things on the basis of his purposes. How does God accomplish all things? Some are done directly and exclusively by God without use of other agents, but most are accomplished through the agency of others (humans, angels, donkeys, etc.).

Clearly, this verse teaches the absolute sovereignty of God. Just as clearly, with such a notion of sovereignty, there is no room for indeterministic freedom. Given indeterministic freedom, God cannot guarantee that what he decides will be carried out. No matter how much God inclines someone’s will toward what he has chosen, such inclination, on an indeterministic account of freedom, can never be sufficient to produce God’s decreed action. Given indeterminism, there is no way for God to be in control of the world as outlined in Ephesians 1:11


6,736 posted on 01/27/2010 11:05:55 AM PST by blue-duncan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6722 | View Replies ]

To: Mr Rogers
Limited atonement? Not hardly. “God so loved the world...whoever believes”.

See the question is not is belief necessary, but who has the desire and ability to believe..

The Day of atonement was a day of repentance and forgiveness for the Jewish people..it was a type of Christ as high priest and a type of Christ as sacrifice . The sacrifice was solely for the elect nation of Israel it was not an unlimited atonement it was limited to Gods chosen people... We have a God that does not change

6,763 posted on 01/27/2010 2:15:53 PM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6722 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson