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To: stfassisi
Thanks.

... our companionship with the saints joins us to Christ, from Whom as from its Fountain and Head issues every grace and the very life of the people of God.

And vice versa, in Christ we find the joy and strength of communion with the saints.

I wonder if one reason they do not understand Mary's role is that they might be uncomfortable with the very notions of family and community. So much of their thought seems to be about the solitary sinner being raised to forensic righteousness and reconciliation with a solitary Deity sitting in austere and incomprehensible righteousness having predetermined that the Innocents of Bethlehem should glorify Him by their deaths.

This might also be connected to their vision of a cosmos of slavery, in which one is either a slave to sin or to righteousness, but never free. And THAT in its turn might be connected to a view of soteriology which is about being saved or rescued from perdition, but is comparatively silent on what we are saved FOR. Some of their writings are individualistic to the point of humorless solipsism.

And it goes further: The clear division of gifts among many members, each with its own function and class of functions, described wonderfully in I Cor 12 bespeaks a kind of courtesy, humility, and love among the members of the body. But that sort of community with its requisite humility impinges upon the individual who with Bible and God has everything he needs.

Their Church is invisible; their churches opportunistic assemblies of people so fractious that even if they agree on fundamental doctrine they fissiparate regularly into more and more particularly denominated groups, this one "Orthodox," that one "Bible the other "Evangelical," and so forth.

It is a strangely Lucretian Christianity in which particles of saved individuals swerve into accidental communities bearing an indeterminate relationship with the Body of Christ.

It's a different and not a Biblical vision.

1,827 posted on 01/11/2010 2:11:20 PM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
I wonder if one reason they do not understand Mary's role is that they might be uncomfortable with the very notions of family and community.

I think this is a valid point and have thought this for some time now. The only family unity they believe in is an invisible Church here on earth with no authority and many beliefs- This makes up a pretty dysfunctional family

1,839 posted on 01/11/2010 2:41:59 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Mad Dawg; stfassisi

“But that sort of community with its requisite humility impinges upon the individual who with Bible and God has everything he needs. Their Church is invisible; their churches opportunistic assemblies of people so fractious...”

MD, you are better than that! That doesn’t describe the Baptist church I attend. All the Baptist churches I’ve been in teach we are a body, and cannot neglect each other. 2 Tim 3 instructs Timothy to use scripture to teach, rebuke, etc - not for him to toss out Bibles and hope they somehow take root somewhere. And since the pastor of the church I’m part of works part time in addition to being pastor, he’s a pretty strange opportunistic fellow. In fact, we rent a place for worship...we’re not exactly rolling the the dough. And if anyone wants to know our finances, there are quarterly statements available near the entrance.


1,842 posted on 01/11/2010 2:46:46 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mad Dawg; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; Mr Rogers; boatbums; wmfights
This might also be connected to their vision of a cosmos of slavery, in which one is either a slave to sin or to righteousness, but never free. And THAT in its turn might be connected to a view of soteriology which is about being saved or rescued from perdition, but is comparatively silent on what we are saved FOR.

Interesting point
1,941 posted on 01/11/2010 10:56:08 PM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Mad Dawg; Dr. Eckleburg
Paraphrasing: Their Meta-Group is invisible; their groups opportunistic assemblies of people so fractious that even if they agree on fundamental doctrine they fissiparate regularly into more and more particularly denominated groups, this one "Orthodox Presbyterian," that one "Bible Prebyterian the other "Evangelical Prebyterian - Re-formed edition," and so forth.

And that is so true, since, as you state "they might be uncomfortable with the very notions of family and community. " and "It is a strangely Lucretian Christianity in which particles of saved individuals swerve into accidental communities bearing an indeterminate relationship with the Body of Christ."
1,942 posted on 01/11/2010 10:59:10 PM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Mad Dawg; Cronos; stfassisi; Quix; the_conscience; Dutchboy88; RnMomof7; 1000 silverlings; ...
I wonder if one reason they do not understand Mary's role is that they might be uncomfortable with the very notions of family and community.

No, that's not it.

Protestants are repelled by the superstitions and pagan rituals Rome finds so comforting. The desire to reject idolatry and cleave to Christ alone is a gift given by God to those He has saved from the false rituals of the papacy's decaying tyranny.

According to a Pew study, for every one Protestant who converts to Roman Catholicism four Roman Catholics convert to Protestantism.

As Christ gathers His sheep, progress.

1,953 posted on 01/11/2010 11:31:48 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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