Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Natural Law]

"Wake up and read your Bible. Flee from idolatry."

I've already done that. In Exodus 20:3-6 God forbids making graven images for the purpose of idolatry but does not forbid the making of graven images per se. Elsewhere he commands that statues and other graven images be carved for religious purposes. The Catholic Church permits statues because they remind us of unseen things, but it condemns the idolatry of statue worship.

"[The Lord said] make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end. . ." (Ex. 25:18-19).

"You shall make the tabernacle with . . . cherubim skillfully worked" (Ex. 26:1).

"The Lord said to Moses, `Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.' So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole" (Num. 21:8-9).

"He made two cherubim of olivewood, each ten cubits high. . . . He put the cherubim in the innermost part of the Temple . . . And he overlaid the cherubim with gold. He carved all the walls of the Temple round about with carved figures of cherubim and palm trees and open flowers" (1 Kgs. 6:23, 27-29).

"[The brazen sea] stood upon [statues of] twelve oxen, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south, and three facing east" (1 Kgs. 7:25).

"And on the surfaces of its stays and on its panels, he carved cherubim, lions, and palm trees, according to the space of each, with wreaths round about" (1 Kgs. 7:36).

I will also bet that you had a Christmas tree and a host of other decorations and that a cross appears somewhere in your religious institution and its documentation.

Wake up and read your dictionary and concentrate on the words intercession and veneration and then contrast them to the word worship. Flee from ignorance.

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind response.

May the Lord guide us in this as well as in all things.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

a Catholic is instructed to examine his conscience before presenting himself for Holy communion

Interesting. So here the Roman Catholic is to trust his conscience, but the Protestant who believes in Jesus Christ is not to trust in or rely on his conscience.

[Quix]

INDEED.

AMEN.

[Quix]

Now, now.

We are expected to show proper respect for the

INFALLIBLE DOCTRINE AND DOGMA OF HOLY DUPLICITY

/s

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

You then go on to say that you recognize the Real Presence of Christ. So then you are in a curious position where Christ asked you to eat of His body, you know that He did, yet you won't do it for one reason or another. This is hard to reconcile with freedom from sin, and hence with the conditions spelled out in 1 Cor 11.

What I do and do not do is based on Spiritual discernment not sensory perception. (John 15, John 10, I Cor 2, Romans 8, etc.)

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. - I Cor 2:13-14

The testimony of a priest when he hands someone the bread and says "the body of Christ" is not what makes it so. God alone makes it so according to His own will.

For that reason I would not say that every communion in a particular assembly or location is divine. Nor is it exclusive. God makes it so - or not - whether Catholic, Lutheran, Orthodox, Baptist, the bread and wine as a Christian family observes Shabbat, etc.

Other examples from Scripture would be God's presence in the burning bush, the pillar of fire and smoke, the Temple. And of course, most especially, in my brothers and sisters in Christ:

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - I Cor 6:19

Or to put it another way, I spiritually discern the body and the blood of Christ in many communions.

So when you say "Real Presence" we may not be talking about the same thing even though the words would fit.

xone provided a very illuminating pdf about close communion in the Lutheran doctrine. If you have a link for a similar Q&A on the Catholic doctrine, I'd like to read it. Without further information, I suspect the Catholic doctrine claims a Spiritual discernment as well as a physical discernment in its exclusion of non-Catholics.

God's Name is I AM

[shibumi]

"God forbids making graven images for the purpose of idolatry but does not forbid the making of graven images per se."

[Natural Law]

"This is an honest question about the Catholics...Is it or is it not true that where the Roman Catholics tend to become the dominant spiritual influence in a country (Mexico (89%), Venezuela (92%), Cuba (dominant) , Italy ‘Andreotti’ (87.8%), etc.) the country decays into a gangland controlled disaster?"

Shall we contrast that with localities that are predominantly Protestant like Atlanta, Newark, Compton, Oakland, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Washington DC, New Orleans, Chicago and Detroit?

BTW - The crime rate in Italy is actually lower than in England and the Netherlands.

[Quix]

As usual . . .

I must boringly agree with you wholesale.

LOL.

What fun is that!

I still have an intense conviction . . . God is very holy.

He is not at all prissy.

He must laugh and cry alternately at a lot of humans

exceedingly fussy RELIGIOUS nonsense.

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOL! Thank you so much for your encouragement, dear brother in Christ!

[boatbums]

Thank you for that testimony! I’m choking up. It is indeed awesome to be caught up in geniune praise and worship together with fellow believers. There have been times where tears are streaming down my face and I can hardly get the words to the songs out. That is when I know what a “sacrifice of praise” really means and I can see our heavenly Father’s smile.

[Quix]

Isn’t THAT

what RELIGIOUS “EDUCATION”

and magicstericals

are FOR?

How many required graduate courses are there in hair-splitting anyway?

[Quix]

INDEED! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

[boatbums]

Ooow..that’s a keeper!!!

[Cronos]

Depends on which Protestant -- many Anglicans (non-ECUSA types), Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Evangelical Churchs are Christian, but many others like those that believe in the second coming of Machen and Theonomy leading to the belief that those who don't follow Machen ought to be punished.

Then you have other Evangelicals who consider Baptists to be wrong due to John 10:28, and also condemn Baptist beliefs that but we could lose some "rewards" if we engage in extreme sinful behavior". Then you have those who believe in Harry Walther, then those who believe that a UFO will come and take them away during rapture

then you have the various groups even here on FR who look at 2012 as the judgement year (Millerites reborn?)

[boatbums]

Thank you dear brother in the Lord. Glad you are feeling better. Blessings and new discoveries in your new semester!

[Cacique]

btt

[Cronos]

So, are you prepared for 2012, the Mayan calendar end of days?

[boatbums]

Sounds like SOME people are getting cranky and should go to bed.