Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[ArrogantBustard]

study Old Norse and learn to recite the Sagas?” (This is Seaman Anoreth’s latest hobby ;-).

If she comes home wearing a horned helmet and scale armour, don't be too surprised...

[Running On Empty]

It doesn’t seem worthwhile, does it?

To all appearances, no one here has been changed in mind and heart.

[netmilsmom]

Why look for something to bother you? It bothers me to see a painting of Mary covered in dung.

I don’t look at it, nor do I think that every FReeper who has a problem with an image of Mary would think that’s peachy.

Better we spend our time spreading the good news rather than finding obscure photos to fuel our offense.

I hear ABC is offended that some scope manufacturer is including Scripture references on their product. How much work did they have to do to find that? At least they have an excuse, that’s their job.

[netmilsmom]

Amen!

[Judith Anne]

Exactly. I’d still like to know where it was cut-n-pasted from. There’s a history of questionable acuracy.

[NoGrayZone]

bookmark.

[vladimir998]

Uh, is this the picture in question: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://photographybyivan.com/GraveImages/thumbnails/tnMary%27s%2520Sacrifice%2520(Granada,%2520Nicaragua).JPG&imgrefurl=http://photographybyivan.com/GraveImages/index.html&usg=__ARE_p3B1w3hueeZoWwuxRBPHEis=&h=200&w=134&sz=12&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=wjpFzYy_5KXu7M:&tbnh=104&tbnw=70&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphotographybyivan.com%2B%2B%2522Mary%2527s%2BSacrifice%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1W1GGLL_en%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

Yeah, I know it’s only the photo and no text, but I think you can tell that the photographer added the name rather than it being what the statue was actually called. Why do I say that? Look here: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=photographybyivan.com%20%20%22Mary’s%20Sacrifice&rlz=1W1GGLL_en&aql=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

I have no reason to believe any of those pieces were named necessarily.

Also, I should point out the obvious: Mary’s left hand is on her heart and her right hand is draped on the crossbeam rather than BEING NAILED THERE OR EVEN TIED THERE. Mary is clearly NOT PORTRAYED AS BEING CRUCIFIED. Her sacrifice is the giving up of her beloved Son. The placing of her hand on her heart shows her longing for her Son.

NEXT!

[Judith Anne]

Do you think I’ll get an answer?

I don’t. I think it came from some anti-Catholic website that went data mining for some specific thing to be outraged about.

Frankly, it’s incomplete.

[Alamo-Girl]

Why attribute a motive to me for researching anything?

[Quix]

Hmmmmmm.

[Judith Anne]

Well done, Vlad. Thank you.

[Judith Anne]

I read that thread about the scopes. Evidently they are high quality, but ABC called the scripture reference “in code.” LOL!

[Running On Empty]

I don’t know, but there’s a possibility that her hand over her heart is the artist’s understanding of the Scripture from Luke, when Simeon prophecies that “a sword shall pierce your heart”.

I had a friend whose son was murdered in the process of a theft. This mother told me that she understood why we are told that a sword peierced the heart of Mary.

What mother can endure watching her Son being crucified, and not have a piercing of her heart.

[netmilsmom]

Actually, that was all established before. We even had a picture of the entire graveyard. No one can establish that it’s actually Mary and not the person in the grave depicted there.

The big thing is that some people don’t want art depicting anyone touching a cross. To me, that’s a bit OCD, but hey, to each his own. If someone is looking to be offended, he/she will be.

Now, are ALL Catholics trying to put Mary on a cross? No, but some will never let a good picture go to waste.

[Alamo-Girl]

Yes, that is the thumbnail which remains on Google.

All that I know about the title given to it, "Mary's Sacrifice," is that it appeared on his website. The Google cache is still here.

That the art, if indeed representing Mary, doesn't bother you is irrelevant to the fact that it bothers me.

[markomalley]

Except ya'll will constantly bring Mary up during your worship, during your prayers. We rarely mention Calvin during worship, and then only to quote him. Ya'll worship Mary.

Here is each and every time Mary is mentioned in the ordinary of the Mass:

1970 Mass.

Rite of Contrition:

I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.

Creed:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten not made, one in Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man…

Eucharistic Prayer:

Father, it is our duty and our salvation always and everywhere to give you thanks through your beloved Son, Jesus Christ.
He is the Word through whom you made the universe, the Savior you sent to redeem us. By the power of the Holy Spirit, he took flesh and was born of the Virgin Mary.

And then either this:
In union with the whole Church we honor Mary, the ever-virgin mother of Jesus Christ our Lord and God. We honor Joseph, her husband, the apostles and martyrs Peter and Paul, Andrew, (James, John, Thomas, James, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Simon and Jude; we honor Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus, Cornelius, Cyprian, Lawrence, Chrysogonus, John and Paul, Cosmas and Damian) and all the saints. May their merits and prayers grant us your constant help and protection.

Or this:
Remember our brothers and sisters who have gone to their rest in the hope of rising again; bring them and all the departed into the light of your presence. Have mercy on us all; make us worthy to share eternal life with Mary, the virgin Mother of God, with the apostles, and with all the saints who have done your will throughout the ages. May we praise you in union with them, and give you glory

Or this:
May he make us an everlasting gift to you and enable us to share in the inheritance of your saints, with Mary, the virgin Mother of God; with the apostles, the martyrs, (Saint N. - the saint of the day or the patron saint) and all your saints, on whose constant intercession we rely for help.

Or this:
He was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit, and born of the Virgin Mary, a man like us in all things but sin. To the poor he proclaimed the good news of salvation, to prisoners, freedom, and to those in sorrow, joy. In fulfillment of your will he gave himself up to death; but by rising from the dead, he destroyed death and restored life. And that we might live no longer for ourselves but for him, he sent the Holy Spirit from you, Father, as his first gift to those who believe, to complete his work on earth and bring us the fullness of grace.

Lord, remember those for whom we offer this sacrifice, especially N. our Pope, N. our bishop, and bishops and clergy everywhere. Remember those who take part in this offering, those here present and all your people, and all who seek you with a sincere heart. Remember those who have died in the peace of Christ and all the dead whose faith is known to you alone. Father, in your mercy grant also to us, your children, to enter into our heavenly inheritance in the company of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, and your apostles and saints. Then, in your kingdom, freed from the corruption of sin and death, we shall sing your glory with every creature through Christ our Lord, through whom you give us everything that is good.

Does three, possibly four mentions in a Sunday Mass qualify as "constantly?"

[vladimir998]

Glad to help! I found Ivan’s text on these photos, but he says nothing there about that particular photo:

Grave Images

Central America offers an array of very old and very diverse graveyards. The majority of the oldest and most interesting graveyards cannot be found on any map. No, such graveyards are generally found simply by stumbling upon them while traveling through the countryside. Within each, one will find familial stories more diverse and political than imaginable.

Synomonous with graveyards are the multitude of exquisite statuaries in which to photograph - particularly of angels. Around the world, angels of all types often adorn the bodily resting place of the once living. Angels first appeared in Hispanic America around 1660, stretching from northern Peru to northern Argentina. They are said to be counsel for His Divine Will, protectors of the pure of heart, and messengers of God. For the camera lens within this series, they are works of grace, beauty, and awe.

All photographs within the Photo Galleries are purchasable. Each ‘Signed, Limited Edition Print’ offers only 30 within the series, and is priced at $150. Each ‘Print’ is priced at $30. Below each photograph, simply click on ‘Signed, Limited Edition Print’ or ‘Print’ to place your order. Your selection will be added to your Shopping Cart.

All photo images are 8x14 inches and printed on 11x17 inch photo paper. As such, each ‘Signed, Limited Edition Print’ or ‘Print’ has a white border surrounding the actual photograph. Photographs are sent unframed.

PLEASE NOTE: If you do not have a PayPal account, you may still make a purchase by clicking the button in the center of the page next to “If you do not currently have a PayPal account”. Charges will appear on your credit card statement as ‘Photography by Ivan’.

[Running On Empty]

I don’t know, but there’s a possibility that her hand over her heart is the artist’s understanding of the Scripture from Luke, when Simeon prophecies that “a sword shall pierce your heart”. Did Simeon know that when the sword piercd the heart of Jesus that, in spirit, Mary’s heart would feel the piercing?

I had a friend whose son was murdered in the process of a theft. This grieving mother told me that she understood why we are told that a sword peierced the heart of Mary.

What mother can endure watching her Son being crucified, and not have a piercing of her heart.

[netmilsmom]

I’m not attributing motive. Note the questions, they ask “Why”?

My lack of understanding as to why anyone would prefer to point out things SO obscure is why I posted what I did.

[Running On Empty]

Sorry—I posted 2 versions—without realizing it.