Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Mr Rogers]

“You lost me right there. IMHO He/they taught against SOME tradition, not all.”

If he taught against some, then it seems tradition isn’t as reliable as scripture.

What teaching did he authenticate from tradition? Where did he use or recommend tradition as useful for interpreting scripture?

All of us have traditions, but Protestants measure our traditions against scripture - or at least, we say we should. For a teaching as serious in importance as Purgatory or doing penance to be absent in scripture is pretty disturbing to most Bible-believing Protestants.

[Alamo-Girl]

Jesus used a few examples in Mark 7:1-13

[wagglebee]

Very interesting history that particular chuch has.

[Judith Anne]

Got it, thank you very much.

The pots and pans thing related to Jewish dietary laws, and as I recall, there was a law that mandated that a man must take care of his parents if they were in need.

But it is true that Christ used the word tradition, and contrasted it with God’s law, at least in the KJV I just read.

Again, thank you.

[Alamo-Girl]

You are quite welcome, dear sister in Christ!

[Judith Anne]

What an absolutely gorgeous church! And the artwork is breathtaking...looking at it certainly elevates the mind to sacred thought...

[Cronos]

Nobody is asking you to define anything or interpret any voices in your head. You just have to read the factual historical books.

[Mad Dawg]

I would say in general the "tradition" might be like, um, drugs. Depending on the source and the nature, some very bad, some very good. If I can have that (yes, it's weak, shaddup) then to speak against some drugs is not to speak against all. This feels a little like a stretch, but outside of the Torah, was there a real "canon" in our Lord's day? Could I say that for Him the Scriptures were a paradosis. I can't think of a place where he referred to "tradition" generally or explicitlyt to interpret Scripture. But (of course) I'm going to say those questions are irrelevant to the question. When the bridegroom is there, when the perfect revelation is there, who's going to be worrying about reliable sources of revelation later on.

In related news, as I have said before, I LOVE the idea of Purgatory. it always kind of brings me up short when I find that some people think it's just dreadful.

Throw some more at me, and I'll see if I can be more articulate later. My heart is kind of in Massachusetts today.

[Iscool]

WE are the evidence!

Really??? Who do you resemble in the scriptures that prayed to Mary???

So Jesus told the apostles things like no meat on Fridays, everbody wear a black robe, put your pope in the 'chief' seat, and then let people bow to him, etc....

But when the apostles/disciples wrote what Jesus said, they neglected to put any of this teaching into their epistles...

And then the apostle says to hold fast to the traditions, whether they are the traditions found in the scriptures, or, the Roman Catholic's version which is spread by word of mouth...

Hmmm...I'm thinkin' it's pretty evident your crew is NOT the evidence...

[Cronos]

Cronos: Even the Naimans were in contact with the CAtholicos of Ctesiphon-Selucia

Quix NOPE. Here and there, eventually. And power has a way of consolidating more power.

So you don't believe that the Naimans were in contact with the Catholicos of Ctesiphon-Seleucia?

[Mad Dawg]

Yeah. I know who’s buried in Grant’s tomb. But I think in general while not a first tier wonderful church, it certainly has some very lovely features.

[Iscool]

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

They miss so much of what God has to offer by studying their catechism instead of the words of God...

[Cronos]

God is the one who saves everyone who is going to be saved. YOU make the choice if you want to accept God's will or not -- that affects YOUR "fate", it does not affect God or His plan. If you think that the choice you make affects God's plan, then that is sheer egotism

[Judith Anne]

Alamo-Girl posted that Christ taught against some tradition as recorded in Mark 7, 1-13.

Since my mother and some other relative are Jewish, I had an interest in His teachings from that POV when I first read the Gospels. It was my impression that He upheld Jewish law, mostly in the Spirit of God rather than the nitpicky legalism it had devolved to.

I couldn’t remember any record of traditions, but Alamo-Girl found that passage in Mark. It does mention Christ using the word “tradition” in the KJV, but I’m thinking it was another attempt to trap him in law-breaking...I’m going to see what the literal translation is, if I can find it, because this is a matter of personal interest to me.

[Mad Dawg]

And he is the 'hilasmos' for our sins, and not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world.(from memory).

And the folks who cut off verses part way through miss a lot too.

[esquirette]

Motion to strike as non-responsive. You changed the terms by adding the word, ‘plan,’ which changes the meaning of your previous post.

Yet, the new terms you have posed are still interesting:

You stated: “YOU make the choice if you want to accept God’s will or not.”

I ask: Can a human being thwart God’s will? If ‘yes,’ He is not sovereign, and something else is. If ‘no,’ then predestination is true.

[Iscool]

In it he speaks of “our separated brethren” who are “ not in full communion” with Rome.

Well Gus, we are separated from Rome via (our) choice and many of us are not only not in full communion with Rome, but are not in commuinion at all with Rome...Again, our choice...

We are though, in full communion with God...We are His children...He know us by name...

[Quix]

One more time..there is no scripture indicating the early church (during the time of the REAL apostles) revered Mary in any special way..she is not seen again or discussed beyond Pentecost, when she, like everyone on the room was given the gift of the Holy Spirit..
There is no mention of her life OR HER DEATH there is certainly no mention of her “assumption”

Seeing that the OT faithfully records Elijah but fails to mention such a” momentous occasion “as the assumption of the mother of Christ is noteworthy also that it was not told to the unbelievers to reinforce the nature of Christ is also unbelievable..

In my opinion she has been made the equivalent of a goddess by the traditions put in place by the popes.. so i do not believe that is of God..

The pictures are of icons that can easily become a source of worship.. so they actually put souls in danger of idolatry .

2 Tim2:2 And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable menwho will also be qualified to teach others.

Not a word on tradition there.. The letters of Paul (the scriptures) contain his words passed on ..they were preserved for us so that they not be distorted..

##########

INDEED.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE SALVATION OF *THE LORD*!

[wagglebee]

I think there are certainly churches that are more beautiful, I cannot think of any that have more historical importance than the one posted.

[Mad Dawg]

Get back to us when you want to

1. quote verses in their entirety; and
2. argue against our actual argument (we said we are the EVIDENCE, we didn't say we needed evidence); and
   
3. argue intelligently against what we actually teach and do.
   (FYI: First order Dominicans wear white robes. We lay guys wear, you know, clothes.)

Jeez, When things start looking bad for the intellectual integrity of your side,y'all have to start making stuff up to hit us with.

Sorry. feeling feisty today.