Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Mad Dawg]

I think you should back off for a spell, and decide just exactly what it is you want to accuse us of.

Right now you say you have shown how we commit idolatry, and that you have shown it from the Bible. But I asked you to show me exactly where it says in so many words that what we do is idolatry and you didn't do it. You had a lot of quotes, but none of them did the job.

One of your supporters finally fell back from YOUR position that there was an explicit prohibition to the weaker position that there was NOT an explicit permission.

You charge us with idolatry. I say that is a falsehood. I do NOT say that we do not pray to any number of people here on earth and in heaven. I do not say that we do not use images in our devotional activities. I DO say that you have failed to make the case that that is idolatry.

So I say your charges are false, you have not proved them. You cannot prove them.

[Iscool]

It actually looks like he is going to kiss her feet..I wonder if there is some tradition in that ??

I understand there is a statue in Rome where the toes are worn right off, from people kissing the feet...

[caww]

Your time...my time is just that..mine to keep as my schedule dictates...BTW different zones.

[RnMomof7]

No. When a child is baptized, he has nothing to be cleansed of, other than original ancestral sin. So maybe in that sense there is a cleansing, but it is not ordinarily thought of that way.

What a strange way to put it.. almost as an after thought.

The original sin is what makes man incapable of a saving relationship with God. It is what makes man totally unable to hear or understand the gospel.

I do not believe that baptism "washes" away anything but it is strange to hear you dismiss it so

That was always taught as its primary purpose.

152. Q. What is Baptism?

A. Baptism is a Sacrament which cleanses us from Original Sin, makes us Christians, children of God, and heirs of Heaven.

[Mad Dawg]

So you don’t eat pork?

[MarkBsnr]

But, but, Mark: "It is KNOWN!"

That's all you need to know. They say "It is known." We should crawl back under our rock because "it is known that many of those works are forgeries."

Known? Many of our friends are most familiar with the geography of their own navels and the image of their created God that they see in the mirror.

Scripture consists of daily surprises for them, as they shake the little snippets on the floor and rearrange them into novel and highly creative patterns. All of the major first millennium heresies came from these little snippets and rearranged. The Reformation brought nothing new to the table; it merely rearranged old heresies and started to develop and fine tune them. Subordinationalism is a good example. Gnosticism is another.

[Petronski]

A mere mention at *.va is not sufficient to establish a doctrine of the Catholic Church.

The Catechism on the other hand is an organic presentation of the Catholic faith in its entirety. It should be seen therefore as a unified whole. CCC #18.

[Iscool]

But Paul clearly says that NOT all are apostles, prophets teachers. This part of the Bible gives Sola Scriptura types the heebie jeebies because it suggest that maybe some of them shouldn't be trying to tell others how to think. And for some Christians, the whole POINT of religion is pushing other people around.

You may not have noticed but we post scripture and our positions are based on the scripture we post...And we do so by following instructions in the scripture...

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

[Mad Dawg]

Please refer to scripture where this exception is defined.

Right after you show me the part of the Bible that says it's okay to drive your car to Church for choir practice.

In other words, WHAT?

The OT prohibits idolatry. The images we Catholics use are not idols. Case closed.

Further, your side fails to show why we Catholics should follow the restrictive and artificial canon of Sola Scriptura. And yet your side insists that we should justify ourselves to you according to your standards. Of course the correct response to this is, "Take a hike!" What, are you next going to come into my house and criticize the way I shave?

I think the Protestant notion of Sola Scriptura is bogus, self-contradictory, bogus, useless, and bogus. If you want to worship a book and your own interpretation of it, go ahead. I will worship Him who provided the Book along with the Church, the pillar and ground of truth, as the Bible says.

[Alamo-Girl]

I didn't say "doctrine" I said "authentic teaching."

If the term were used by early Church leaders, Popes, etc. or in the Catechism - and the document is available on the internet - it would show up in that search.

[RnMomof7]

Does the priest temporarily turn into Christ (as during confession) when the wafer is turned into Jesus???
Don't you ever get tired of being so haplessly relentlessly wrong?

You will admit of course the priest stands in for Christ ? And the pope is the "vicar" of Christ"?

[Natural Law]

"I did not elaborate on the scripture, I merely stated it."

Citing an unrelated verse and attempting to redefine it and the English words used might get you a big golden atta-boy in your bible study group or hallelujah echo chamber here on FR, but it is not a response. Defending it before the actually educated is lunacy. If I better understood your motives I might almost feel embarrassed for you.

[Iscool]

That's precisely the point. It's not in the Catechism, even the original article has been pulled. Who is asserting it is Catholic doctrine?

The Catholic ordained Catholic priest who wrote the article who claims all priests are God by the ordination of the Catholic Apostolic successors...

And now you are telling me that one with that amount of authority in your religion is flat out wrong...

Why should we believe you and not your priest/god???

[NoGrayZone]

"Please refer to scripture where this exception is defined. Thanks."

You will never get any, because it doesn't exist. But you will get "words to explain" or deflect.

[Mad Dawg]

This will no doubt astonish some on your side, but I have actually read the passage in question. And what I see is that it is in a letter not addressed to a congregation but to an individual whom Paul has put in a position of responsibility. Thus, doing as the Sola Scriptura side urges us to do, I find that while TIMOTHY and those in authority are charged with this p[reaching and urgency, not every Christian is, for not all are Apostles, prophets, teachers.

Paul tells Timothy to do something, and you use that to justify something that YOU do. That does not necessarily follow. It does show, however, that the Sola Scriptura crowd can and does use the Bible to give them permission to do whatever they want to do, since they get to say which parts matter and which don't.

[Iscool]

Why this sudden reluctance to so what is the bread and butter of your sides argument, misstate what we think and then mock it,

Oh, I get it...You could explain it but we are too dumb to understand it...I thinks it's more like we are not gullible enough to believe it, but hey, some people bow out with class...And some don't...

[Petronski]

Neither question relates to “does the priest temporarily turn into Christ.”

[NoGrayZone]

I have provided nothing but scripture. PLEASE provide yours.

[Mad Dawg]

Define "vicar."

Then, just for fun, think about what Paul, says about how husbands should love their wives.

[Petronski]

...Catholic priest who wrote the article who claims all priests are God...

He does not claim that.