Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
I went back and read the entire thread that markomalley posted, the Father Baker article about the priesthood, and I got to it from your red-lettered link, in your post 3973. Were you talking about some other thread?
And why is it important if I ping the RM? I ping whom I mention, out of courtesy, and I mentioned the RM in my post.
My husband took 4 years of Latin in his Lutheran High School. I went to public school, never took it at all.
Got it. Lots of chuckles in Baker's article, eh?
Saved #3977 post....good for reference when the time comes.
Also Bakers for a closer look. Thanks.
Well, the Fr. Baker thread was actually a short version of this one, frankly. Don't you find it interesting that the same questions come up from non-Catholics year after year after year? I do, and humorous, as well.
And the article was a good one, very interesting I'll likely go back and read it again, since I bookmarked it. Actually I owe you thanks for the link.
3 a.m. Good night.
On that, I daresay you're right. In fact, I HAVE said it.
Most people who can read can avail themselves of missals with the Latin on one side and their local vernacular on the other.
And only Protestants, and I'm tempted to say American Protestants with their generally lousy education especially as regards languages, think Liturgical Latin is a big, huge, insurmountable problem. One could almost think that the Protestants in charge of American Education have set out to teach languages poorly with the intention of making students verbally and linguistically incompetent.
Certainly there's evidence here that they're succeeding.
I don't think that's all that's going on.
If I seriously am looking for the truth, if I seriously think I have something to learn, then I try to understand what other people say. I look and explore for ways in which it might be true.
That does not happen a lot here. Here are people who tell me they are offended by my tag line or by their own adopted term "Protestant." Here are people who get so excited about having a trumped up fit of the vapors over the idea that a priest is an alter Christus that they sort of kind of neglect the part where we say that every Christian is an alter Christus.
Here are people who tell us to our faces that we deny the priesthood of all believers. It's so funny to come from an RCIA class in which we are discussing how all believers are, in Christ, prophet, priest and king, and to come here and read that we reject that doctrine. If I were to believe half of the falsehoods told about us here, my head would explode. Who am I going to believe, my FR antagonists or what I do, pray, hear, and teach?
So you believe what you want. What I see is falsehood eagerly resorted to by people piously proclaiming their love of the truth.
Yes, I am fearful that I might offend God.
My bottom line.....I do think bowing or praying to any statue, or praying to anyone other than God, through Jesus Christ, is wrong.
Now, I could be totally wrong here and you may be 100% correct; however, if I feel, in my heart, which He knows like the back of His hand, that doing so is wrong and I do it because others said it was okay, that would be sinful.
If I am incorrect about the statues and praying to others, He will not hold it against me. He see's I am trying, in my feeble human way, to praise and honor Him by following His word.
One theme I see over and over again in the Bible is about being led astray, deceived. It seems that most people, in the end of times, will be deceived into not following Christ.
I do not want to be one of those people.
When I look at this post I see that it was posted at 3:25 AM.
Maybe in the world where false is true, quiet at 3:25 AM is a sign of something portentous. In the Catholic world, by contrast, while some are up praying, most of us are in bed asleep at that time, which means we are thinking only twice as clearly as our antagonists.
Yes, if , doing the best you can, you determine that any kind of interaction with saints and images of saints is wrong, then certainly you ought not to do that stuff. That's just solid Catholic teaching.
On the other hand, "conscience" is not some mantic oracle not a faculty whereby feelings about right and wrong are piped into our consciousness. Not only can it be "formed and informed" (as I like to say), but we have a DUTY to "form and inform" our consciences.
That duty is not done by scoffing.
Well stated, again, Dr. E. What need have we of other witnesses?
Okay.....from the New Testament....1 Corinthians 10:12-15 - Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.
1 John 5:18-25 - We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Acts 15:20 - But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Romans 2:20-23 - An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
1 Corinthians 8:4 - As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1 Thessalonians 1:9 - For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
Revelation 9:20 - And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
"was lifted by a sovereign decision of the Church."
What are you saying? The church lifted the shall not worship idols law?
Amen!
Interesting person to channel for your condemnation of Catholic thought. Having Caiaphas quoted against me gives me a sense of comfort.
The query is
'You have to show me where did the Christian Church forbid the making of Holy Images.'
I went through your response and looked for the words "making" and "images". They did not appear. The words "idol" and "idolatry" did appear.
I can read your answer and say: there is nothing in what you said which opposes the MAKING of holy IMAGES. You seem to assume that all images are idols. But that is the VERY THING in question!
So your answer and collection of verses comes down to,"It's wrong because I say so." You have not shown where the Christian Church forbade the making of Holy Images.
There you go, determining what all this means on your own again.
I don't think it was channeled divine grace that molested all those children. Nor was it channeled divine grace that covered it up.
Matthew 7:14-20 -Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
And don't forget the pledge to bow more often.
In attacking the Catholic Church, you quoted Caiaphas. That makes me feel like I'm on the right side. That's what I said. What is this "determining what things mean" stuff?
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