Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[annalex]

The only place it seems we are NOT Catholics is here on FR.

Perhaps I missed something, but along with some others I need to voice my support for the caucus system as it is. "Catholic Caucus" designates a thread that is for Catholics in full communion with today's Pope, to which non-antagonistic, non-disruptive Orthodox and other likeminded Christian are by default invited. "Catholic-Orthodox", or possibly "Catholic-Anglican", etc. threads invite whoever is specifically invited. If a controversy arises, the narrow caucus definition rules. Isn't it how Religion Moderator has treated caucus threads in the past? Why change?

The purpose of forum moderation is to cut disruptions short. The caucus designation is not to proclaim proper ecclesiology but to assist in moderation. Ecclesiologically, the effects of the Eastern Schism are vanishing and at least from the Catholic (the one in full communion with Rome) perspective the Eastern Orthodox are Catholic in 99% of the application of the word. The Protestants are Catholic at times, but usually they are not, again in the practical everyday application of the word.

However, it is possible to have a Catholic-In-Full-Formal-Communion-With-Rome caucus, or Catholic-Residing-In-Kansas-City forum, or Catholic-For-John-Birch forum. This is simply a method to invite one group of posters and disinvite others, in order to have a meaningful productive discussion.

It is also a dynamic thing. Given similarities in theology, Orthodox (in the narrow sense) participation in a Catholic (in a narrow sense) caucus thread is not usually disruptive. A Protestant (who claims himself catholic in the invisible universal church sense) participation in the same thread is usually very disruptive. But, we have been blessed with very thoughful Protestants who do not behave in a disruptive manner, and on the other hand, we had Orthodox input regarding USCCB politics that was quite disruptive.

Close as we are with the Orthodox, I think it is common sense that they should either recuse themselves when the matter is peculiar to the "Latin Church" and is discussed on a "Catholic Caucus" thread, -- or tone down the rhetoric. This is quite regardless of the true and highbrow meaning of "Catholic" or "catholic", or "recognizing the authority of the Pope" or what have you.

I think, our overriding purpose should be cutting troll threads like this one short, and not inflame them.

[CTrent1564]

Petronski:

Ok, I will use that one as well. How used is firefox? and what are its advantages, if you don’t mind my asking. Is it less susceptible to amware and spyware type crap [pardon my Sicilian].

Regards

[Quix]

INDEED:

The concept of Christ as the chief cornerstone, and the stones of the building as the Church was first taught by Christ in Matt 16:16-18 when He told Peter, "You are blessed, Simon, Son of Jonas. And on this rock [PETRA, giant rock, Lord Jesus Christ] I will build my Church [royal family of God]. Therefore, your name is now PETROS [part or chip of a rock]." This reference to Christ as the chief cornerstone is found in Eph 2:20; 1 Pet 2:4-8. Peter recognized that Christ, not the Church, is the rock. The Church didn't even exist in Matt 16. Christ is the link between the two walls, Israel and the Church. He is the ruler of both.

Great verses. It's the verse just several verses before Matt 16:23 where the situation is more fully described,:

"(Mat 16:23) But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."

I also understand the word used 'petra' also refers to a little pebble and in the Greek, adjectives are also used as nouns.

THANKS.

BTW, re a related matter . . . when the ?C?AWTRB group's finger frothing clique folks spew their outrageous !!!!!CONTROL!!!! FREAQUE !!!!DEMANDS!!!!,

perhaps

We should develop a table and numbering system. We could, then, simply reply something like . . .

Ahhh, yes, STOCK OUTRAGEOUS !!!!CONTROL!!!! PHREAQUE !!!!DEMAND!!!! #8

OR

SO!C!P!D!#8

OR maybe in a rush

SOCPD#12

or whatever the case might be. Then thoughtful TPC's and onlookers could merely go--oh, yeah, that old idiocy and scroll on by without having to bother with the same tiresomely spewed bile.

We could probably even end up pairing appropriate Scriptures with such Stock numbered bile spews. That could spare us a lot of finger flinging at the wind. It would also make for a much clearer comparison between our brief, cryptic, calm replies and the ?C?AWTRB's finger frothing clique's volcanic bile spewing rants.

[Cvengr]

(Eph 2:20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

1Pet 2:4-8
(4) To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
(5) Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
(6) Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
(7) Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
(8) And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Sure seems to me that Christ is the Chief Cornerstone.

[Quix]

not inflame them

NOT

inflame them???

Oh, Dear!

The evidence suggets to a number of us that DELIBERATELY INFLAMING, OUTRAGEOUSLY !!!!DEMANDING!!!! and attempting to !!!!CONTROL!!!! TPC's constructions on reality

THAT'S what at least a sizeable percentage of rabid clique components of the Vatican Affiliates/ Latins/ Roman Catholics

LIVE, BREATHE, HAVE THEIR BEING AND DELIGHT TO DO.

Goodness! They might have to go to physical therapy for exercises to revitalize unused arthritic fingers should they begin to take your wise exhortation to heart.

[Quix]

CERTAINLY CHRIST JESUS IS THE ONE AND ONLY CORNERSTONE.

BTW, Alamo-Girl’s excellent study on Jesus the Cornerstone is available here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1773630/posts?

[annalex]

Relax, honey. How’s your afternoon been?

[Quix]

THANKS.

Was calm with that post. Just grinningly decided, after all, not to resist the temptation. LOL.

Actually, tolerable enough after getting over the sticker shock of the bill to pull all my teeth—over $4,000.

Wouldn’t Visegrips be a lot cheaper?

Glad I decided to not do the IV drip zoned out anesthetic and to do it in two jumps with normal Novacain sp? Saves $300 or so. I’d just rather go with what I’m used to in addition to the money issue.

Teeth troublesome to pull by the oral surgeon are to be billed at $240/tooth. Nontroublesome to pull are billed at $125.00/tooth.

Sigh.

Troublesome on part time semi-retired 9mo/yr income. Thankfully, God has always provided. I’m sure He will this time, too.

God be with you in a good rest tonight and blessed weekend.

[annalex]

pull all my teeth

I am sorry to hear that. I hope it is not a rash decision.

I was raised by my mother and her aunt. The aunt, Aunt Anna (or Nura, short form Annura, I guess), had all her teeth pulled out in her middle age, rather than endure recurring toothaches. I remember the photographs of her, with the clenched jaw, the kind of Chirchill jaw that looks too tight.

I don't know if it is related, but I sometimes have a nightmare of my teech being loose in the jaw, and then I begin to whack-a-mole them back in.

God was so wise to give us bodies that are fragile. Take care of yourself.

[Cronos]

Point 1 --> If a Baptist group says it doesn't believe in the Nicene creed, how can you consider it Christian? It would be the same as other groups that say they are Christian, but aren't (Christian Scientists etc.)

Point 2 --> The word 'catholic' with a small c stands for universal and no one objects to anyone using that term (even in a sentence like catholic tastes etc), while the term Catholic with a capital C denotes Churchs that are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome as their spiritual head.

You may use the term with a small 'c' to refer to Orthdoxo, Orientals, Assyrians and various groups outside that, but for sanity's sake, the term with a capital 'C' is used specifically for the meaning I listed above.

Just like the term 'orthodox' or 'evangelical', we use the Capitalised form to denote a specific group. This is opposed to groups founded by men like Calvinists, Lutherans, Wesleyans, etc -- those words have one solitary connotation.

this entire post is really silly, FR rules have caucasus where people who agree to one single point of view can discuss among themselves, like for instance, a MORMON caucas -- you and I may disagree with the Mormons, but in a Mormon Caucas, we respect their FR right to discuss issues among each other without us 'outsiders' making barbed or even inquisitive comments. Ditto for OPC caucases, Lutheran caucases, Calvinist, Arminian, etc.

If you are a non-Mormon or non-Calvinist and disagree with a point or post in a Mormon/Calvinist caucas, then we need to either hold our tongue, or post a new, 'free-for-all' post where we can debate with the Mormons/Calvinists.

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind reply.

No, a drawn out decision. Have resisted it a year or 3.

They are fragile, cracked, broken in bits and bits break off every now and then as it is.

I cannot at all afford to have them fixed.

They are fragile and yet deep rooted . . . sigh.

Have had problems with my teeth even with my baby teeth—all my life. More than 30 dentists.

Ah well . . . has helped me learn to handle that kind of pain, I guess . . . welll . . . as well as one can! Praise God for meds!

One of the bigger traumas to my psyche is trying to wrap my mind around such foreign things in my mouth my waking hours . . . hate foreign things in my mouth. Sigh.

Thankfully, I have good Christian dentists that are very skillful as well as having excellent chairside manners.

Praise God for that.

God will see me through somehow.

Bless you abundantly for your kind words.

[annalex]

Courage. Thanks.

[Cronos]

Ok, how about this categorisation:

Top-level: Christian and non-Christian

In the Christian you have Western Church aka Catholic, Eastern Church aka Eastern Orthodox, Oriental aka Coptic, Ethiopian, Armenian and Assyrian aka Church of The East. Oh and Other Trinitarian aka believers in the Nicene Creed but not Apostolic

In the non-Christian, we can have Islam which is sub-divided into Sunni, Shia and Others. Sunni to be divided into Sunni-Sunni, Sufi, Dervish, Wahabbi, Deobandi, Mutawilli etc. The Shias to Twelvers, Fivers, Ismailies, Boris, etc. And the Others to Ahmaddiyas (sub-divided into the two groups), Druze, Alawies, Ibadis etc. etc.

For the Christian-Other Trinitarian aka believers in the Nicene Creed but not Apostolic, we subdivide into Anglican (sub-divided into High Church, Low Church and Gay Church), Lutheran and SOME Baptists and Others.

In the "Others" category we'll put the OPC, BPC, APC and DPC as separate categories or do they fall under one category? So, the next caucasus you can put togeter will be labelled as :

Christian\Other Trinitarian aka believers in the Nicene Creed but not Apostolic\Others\Prebyterian\New developments post Civil war\Orthodox Presbyterians\American Baptist Presbyterians\Baptist Orthodox Prebyterian CalvinoLutheran West-Central Church caucasus.


There! Done!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The term "Protestant", like the terms "Christian" and "Roman Catholic," implies a Trinitarian perspective.

All Protestants are Trinitarian. Mormons and Unitarians are not Protestants.

[Huber]

In Western Christianity, there are advantages to being a smaller target, such as fewer attacks, but there are also advantages to having a magisterium which provides a degree of resistance to accommodation. The Eastern Church is a separate case entirely.

[Quix]

SORRY.

That still leaves the

Roman Catholics/ Vatican Affiliates/ Latins/

!!!DEMANDING!!!! that we Prottys kowtow, submit to, obey, comply with, grovel at their

heretical construction on what constitutes the 'only' 'authorized' 'genuine' 'God ordained' Body/Church of Christ.

I will no longer comply with that nor abide that, hereon, in my personal postings.

I'm NOT their serf, their slave, nor their heathen lacky in such matters. Not one shred of a degree.

MORE IMPORTANTLY, I'm not going to give heretical assent to a heretical construction on Scripture, on history and on theology.

I've done it far too much for far too long to be somewhat peacable and cooperative.

All that's been returned is barnyard doo off the soles of their feet on my neck.

MORE IMPORTANTLY AND WORSE, it gives them the heretical and horrific impression that I UNBIBLICALLY AND HERETICALLY am complying with their heresy. ENOUGH ALREADY YET. THAT I CAN NO LONGER ABIDE.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

That seems fair although the Romanists on this forum insist that there are other sects associated with Rome so maybe they need to further qualify based upon their different sects.

I think there's upwards of 30,000 of those RC sects by now.

Give or take.

[Religion Moderator]

I deal only with the statements, not all possible inferences that could be drawn from them. Freepers react differently to the same statement.

[annalex]

The Church is defined visibly by who is and who is not invited to the Holy Communion. Violations occur, but we don’t have “sects”.

[Religion Moderator]

Thank you.