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Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?
Me

Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: 1holyapostolicchurch; apostates; catholic; catholicbashing; catholicwhiners; devilworshippers; eckleburghers; greeks; heathen; orthodoxyistheone; papistcrybabies; proddiecatholic; robot; romanistispejorative; romanists; romanistwhinefest; romannamecallers; russians
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To: NoGrayZone
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 - For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Romans 3: 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.

2,861 posted on 01/14/2010 4:42:22 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: NoGrayZone

Me either..I have to trust Christ !~


2,862 posted on 01/14/2010 4:43:25 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: 1000 silverlings
the analogy is not taken too far, see the next verse I used for support not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.
It was not our act of obedience that caused us to be chosen
P>Amen
2,863 posted on 01/14/2010 4:48:41 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: Natural Law
"Can anyone keep that law?"
James 2:24 - You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

The problem is you need to read the book in context

May I quote James to you? No where does Jesus say or imply that one is saved by works. The book of James was written to a converted church , not heathens seeking salvation . It tells them how their conversion is seen by the unsaved world . It is not about becoming saved or being saved. It is about the fruit of your salvation. Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if isay,Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

This is an amplification of the teaching of Jesus that we know a tree by the fruit it bears. It is how we know the saved from the unsaved. It does not declare that the man has faith ...but that he SAYS he has faith. This letter addresses a hollow profession of faith , not a saving one .]Can a hollow profession save him?[ NO, any more than works can save.This scripture says to the church that this faith is non existent , it is dead.

The bible is clear that it is God that gives the faith and it is God that ordains the works of the saved/B>

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, [b]created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Hbr 13:21Make you perfect in every good work ]to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure

Works Have no part of our salvation, they are fruits of it..

2,864 posted on 01/14/2010 4:58:44 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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To: MarkBsnr
Dear MarkBsnr,

Is that all you got? A couple of ad hominems, and that's it? Perhaps you're shooting blanks because that's all that's in your bag.

It's kind of disappointing. I'd hoped that you might dial it down and engage in an actual conversation. If you read through my posts, I've only presented what the Church teaches as I understand it. I've also said in several posts that I accept my limitations of my own understanding of Church teaching.

But what I don't accept are attempts to philosophically undermine what I believe to be Church teaching. If you thought I was wrong in my understanding of things, politely posting the content of relevant, recent magisterial documents might have influenced my thinking.

In answering with little more than ad hominems, you make it appear that you don't have anything else with which to dispute what I've said. As well, a reasonable inference from your posts is that I somehow “deserve” to be treated thusly. No, in fact, it ISN'T an inference. You said it pretty much directly.

To be “deserving” of such treatment, it would be necessary that I'd knowingly done evil.

Yet, I've done no such thing. And, in explicitly raising the issue of my own limits, it is unreasonable to impute it to me.

It is a grave lack of charity to impute such a thing where there is no evidence for it, and where there is actually evidence against it.

It saddens me that you've chosen to behave in this way.

God bless you. I'll keep you in my prayers.


sitetest

2,865 posted on 01/14/2010 6:00:31 AM PST by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Iscool
I'm of the opinion that much of what was written in the Gospels is future prophecy for the Jews...And perhaps this fits into that category...

Interesting thought. I was just pondering if the unforgiveable sin might have been man exercising free will in denying The Gospel. I appreciate you input.

2,866 posted on 01/14/2010 6:07:02 AM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Gamecock; Dr. Eckleburg
Which is why the Roman Cahtolic Church historically banned it's people from reading God's Holy Word.

What a blessing to be able to pick up a Bible, read it, pray about it's meaning, and discuss passages with fellow believers. It's hard to visualize a world where these things were punishable as crimes.

2,867 posted on 01/14/2010 6:19:21 AM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Petronski
This ridiculous, foolish false gospel of Calvin is like the California wildfire that seems to refuse die.

Oh the irony...

2,868 posted on 01/14/2010 6:29:18 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool; wmfights
As far as what is blasphemy against the Spirit, I have yet to find a commentator that has given a clear definition.

What do you all think of what Calvin says about itin the Institutes? I thought it was okay.

2,869 posted on 01/14/2010 6:33:03 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Cronos
What you have stated is false and a false statement of what The Church believes

Of course. Some don't even want to state our position accurately. They're not interested in truth, they're interested in victory, even if it's a bogus and illusory victory

2,870 posted on 01/14/2010 6:37:11 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: esquirette
Mockery here is likely pretty bad, too. . . .

Uh oh. We're in trouble.

2,871 posted on 01/14/2010 6:44:46 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Cronos
In my opinion, it is good because God wills it.

(feeling my way here ...)

Then we have to ask if "good" is just another word for "God wills it." Is there an idea of "good" that is validly or usefully different from the idea of God.

The OTHER side is: How can we say God is God if he must conform to a standard of Justice, Goodness, Beauty, etc. Is that making some concept(s) or "ideas" or "forms" superior to God? (which is absurd)

Lewis works the problem in Mere Christianity, I think.

It has to do with reason and especially with the fallibility of human reason. It's not USEless, but it's certainly imperfect "for now we see only in part."

I think it also leaks into questions of conscience. If somebody tells me that God wills that I blow up a plane full of mothers and children I don't need special revelation to know something is wrong with that.

2,872 posted on 01/14/2010 6:56:21 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
What do you all think of what Calvin says about itin the Institutes? I thought it was okay.

I'm not familiar with what Calvin said...

2,873 posted on 01/14/2010 7:00:08 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: RnMomof7; Cronos; Mr Rogers; MarkBsnr; Mad Dawg
Men DO HAVE a "free will" , but it is God that sets the parameters of that freedom..

You need ask yourself why the calvinists God did not put parameters on Hitler and Mao if we have limited freedom?

2,874 posted on 01/14/2010 7:06:59 AM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: RnMomof7; Mad Dawg

I read through this and don’t see your point in spite of the numerous Bible quotes you offer in your postings.

I perceive a subtle form of quietism in the position that one need not do anything but accept grace.

The whole of salvation is Gift-and-Response. There is the Giver but He does not give to us without asking for a response. (”Could you not watch one hour with Me?”)

And the response of the one receiving the gift—salvation and the gifts of the Holy Spirit accompanying salvation—are the fullness of love exchanged between God and man.

To act is to “work”, for all of one’s being is engaged in acting. To respond to God’s love is an act and and act that is necessary in our filial relationship with God—our sonship with Him.

If all is grace, as St. Paul writes, then grace would lie fallow if we didn’t act by responding to it.

It is work to respond to grace. It is work to love our neighbor. It is work to avoid sin. It is work to live the Beatitudes. It is work to “take up our cross and follow Him”

Don’t you think that following Christ is work?

Or are we to only receive and never give? and isn’t it work to give?

We are justified and sanctified through God’s mercy and our response to His mercy. Responding is not an idle act—it is work.

Work hasn’t been understood properly here.


2,875 posted on 01/14/2010 7:11:37 AM PST by Running On Empty ( The three sorriest words: "It's too late")
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To: Gamecock; Petronski; Mad Dawg; sitetest

Yup, them Cathlick Kirk banned Catlicks from reading the bible or Farmer John’s Almanac. They also banned eating chocolates on Mondays and grapes on Tuesday.


2,876 posted on 01/14/2010 7:19:39 AM PST by Cronos (Philipp2:12, 2Cor5:10, Rom2:6, Matt7:21, Matt22:14, Lu12:42-46,John15:1-10,Rev2:4-5,Rev22:19)
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To: Running On Empty

The will, I think, is a critical aspect of being human. The problem for those who deny will is that they have to show how their notion of salvation doesn’t involved a loss of what it is to be human.

It’s all very well to run the potter v. pot analogy but that only works because human potters have the faculty(ies) of choice and will, though they are broken.


2,877 posted on 01/14/2010 7:26:07 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Cronos

And let’s not forget Big Macs on Friday.


2,878 posted on 01/14/2010 7:27:07 AM PST by Gamecock (We always have reasons for doing what we do.)
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To: Iscool
Book III, chapter 3 section 22:
Here, however, let us give the true definition... I say, therefore, that he sins against the Holy Spirit who, while so constrained by the power of divine truth that he cannot plead ignorance, yet deliberately resists, and that merely for the sake of resisting."

2,879 posted on 01/14/2010 7:42:05 AM PST by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Gamecock

Amen


2,880 posted on 01/14/2010 7:52:19 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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