Posted on 01/05/2010 9:46:47 PM PST by the_conscience
I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?
I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?
‘Dead” is only one ANALOGY used of unregenerate man. Could a slave choose freedom, if offered?
Ripped from the context of the entirety of John 1, I suppose they might.
Of course you do. Now please provide the scripture that says we can pray to saints.
What a wonderful repudiation of the of sovereignty God to say there is a 2nd god that can foil or interfere with the plans of God. Either God is God or He is not..we are not dualists that believe in dueling gods..
Duelling gods? Where do you people come from? Job is about Christ and about the necessity of intercession, not a framework for God being the author of evil.
All of your verses do not mean what you say that they mean. If God were truly the author of evil, then every single verse of the four Gospels are lies. Your verses from Luke refer to the curing of physical ills, not satan. Your quote from John is to Pilate, not to satan.
It is not Christian to believe that God either authors evil or that He ordains it through others.
Why do you insist I limit myself to Scripture?
How many books does your Bible have?
Since God seeks us, all who are born again are so because of God’s will. But that doesn’t mean that no one can ever say no. Neither Baptists (like me) or Catholics (like you) teach that salvation comes from man’s ability to reach God, but from God’s grace in coming to us.
I believe we differ significantly on what happens after rebirth, and apparently we differ significantly on the role of water baptism in rebirth, but not on God coming to us with an offer of grace. We are saved by God’s will, but through faith, not through election.
I am as dry as a James Bond martini.
“Better before the billows than after the four horsemen.”-——ah, yes indeed. Frightful time a coming to be sure.
It is frightful enough now.
It clearly speaks of situations that arise between the living. But it does not exclude the dead, and if they have eternal life as Christ promised them, then they are with us by default. By what logic shouldn't their eternal life be free from prayer? They are with God, are they not?
why are different Saints "designated" to different areas?
These are not formal assignments. You can pray across these "specialties". But , for example, St. Christopher served travelers in his life. So one who is traveling today expects St. Christopher to watch over him. He could ask anyone else, but we pray to saints because of a connection we feel in a particular context. If traveling, to St. Christopher, if arguing about theology, with St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Dominic, etc. Because you think that if they did a certain job or had a certain experience in life, they would be better suited to assist you with their prayer.
Why is a canonized saint certain to be in Heaven?
The Church examines his life and finds evidence of heroic virtue. That is what gets one to heaven. You do not judge others for things you yourself are liable; you can judge others positively all you want.
a departed is elevated to the level of Saint in Heaven based on the decision of humans. Is that correct?
Yes, in part. The Church needs to see a spontaneous devotion to the departed. Absent that, one would question that his virtues had a heroic, that is oriented toward the others, character. It is not enough to be popular, but yes, it is one of the prerequisites. Of course, nothing prevents us from lifting a saint from obscurity. For example, many victims of Communist Terror in Spain would have been forgotten if some Spaniards did not keep their memory alive, and now over 400 such victims are canonized saints.
It is entirely possible to be an uncanonized saint, -- everyone who dies and goes to heaven is a saint, but only few are canonized. This is why it is no contradiction with the usage of the Early Church to have canonized saints. If you beleive someone to be sure to go to heaven you can call him a saint. It becomes your private judgement and is, I think, a good thing. Note that canonization does nothing to the saint, who is in heaven in a state of supernatural happiness already. It serves the living by giving them a friend they otherwise would not know about.
“Repeat after me, there is no free will. There is only God’s will”
God is independent; he doesn’t actually need us or anything else in creation for anything.
God is unchangeable in his being, attributes, purposes, and promises.
God knows everything; in one simple and eternal act, he fully knows himself and all actual and possible things.
God all-wise; he always chooses the best possible goals and the best possible means to meet those goals
God is the final standard of good; all he is and does is good and worthy of approval. There is no higher standard of goodness than God’s own character and his approval of whatever is consistent with that character. In his goodness, God is love; he eternally gives himself for the good of others but he is that good.
God is holy; he is separated from sin and devoted to seeking his own honor.
God is righteous and just, he must treat people as they deserve. Therefore, he must punish that which is against him, that is, sin
God continually “works all things according to the counsel of his will” (Eph. 1:11). God’s will is the ultimate reason for everything that happens. It is the way God approves and determines to bring about every action necessary for the existence of and activity of himself and all his creation. God’s will is how he chooses to do what he does and doesn’t do.
God is omnipotent. He is all powerful. He is able to do all his holy will.
Col. 1:13-19, I was struck by the sovereignty and preeminence of God, Christ Jesus while doing research for a course I am teaching in Romans. From an early church hymn we learn that Jesus is God. He created all things, including man and is still creating the human spirit every time a child is conceived. He sustains that child throughout his life, and He creates everything that influences that child whether it be in heaven, in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers. Everything that happens to and for that child is according to the purpose and plan of God for Jesus and tangentially for the child, but that is a far removed secondary goal, since King Jesus, the Lord, is to have the preeminence in all things.
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Slave, dead, whatever, the fact remains, you are arguing for man to have a power that comes only from God.
We were made alive in Christ from the beginning, all purposed by God. Any work that was done to save us, was all done by Christ.
You don't get any of the glory. Any goodness we have or do, everything we have or do, all comes from the Lord. Why is that so difficult to understand?
The church finds evidence? The church is made of MAN. Man CANNOT state who is a saint and who isn't. MAN CANNOT look into the heart of another. That is God's job.
Certainly. The East German Stasi was based upon Calvin's Consistory in Geneva. Somewhat of a triumph, I think.
Rabbinical Judaism might deny Christ, but technically Jews do not. Remember, our Lord Christ Jesus is quite Jewish, as were the Apostles.
“Many Western Catholics post idiotic statements like this.”
You make assertions, but give no reason to support them.
Churlish, arrogant, ignorant and wrong to boot.
I've also made plain that my only real purpose in posting to this thread was to defend the idea that there can be Catholic/Orthodox threads AND Catholic Only threads AND Orthodox Only threads.
If it were permissible to call you an idiot, then I would call you one. Alas, you post evidence of an invincibly ignorant mindset that heretofore I have only seen in some of our Protestant brethren. I would ask that you do some research into the term Catholic and find out what it means.
All I need to know...
I think the term “God’s will” might be providing confusion.
It is God’s will that I be saved, for example. But He does not command it. It is up to me to accept His Only Son as my Lord and Savior (to believe Jesus of Nazareth is Christ who came to die for my sins that I might have eternal life). If by my faith I accept Him and live in Him I might be saved.
The “elect” formula promoted by Calvinists is something like a bolt of lightning which seems to me to deny free will either in turning to Christ or in falling away from Him in sin.
Gosh I hope I expressed myself accurately. I’m writing purely off the cuff here, elbow deep in home-improvement plans, and I’m too distracted now to be editing.
While that certainly is a reply, it is not a response.
Verywell.
Regarding relics, glorified bodies and resurrection, I go by the teaching of the Church, which I know fairly well. If I am wrong, which is not likely, someone with better knowledge can correct me and I will take correction. I do not interpret Catholicism — either the Bible or any other form of Catholic teaching — personally. I suppose I could, as the Church leaves much open to interpretation, but I just have no interest in it. I derive a greater pleasure in saying: “on this matter, the Church has no definitive teaching”, than in speculating on my own.
That is MAN'S version. If God wants us to obey Him so we can spend our eternal lives with Him, He will, and has, made it CRYSTAL CLEAR on how to do it.
There is no "default".
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