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To: HarleyD; wmfights; Mr Rogers; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; RnMomof7; Gamecock; ...
I'm pinging people to this post as an example that you cannot understand the Gospel of John if you believe in free will. John 1:12-13 is a very clear example of that. These verses make no sense.
2,722 posted on 01/13/2010 5:59:18 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
These verses make no sense.

Ripped from the context of the entirety of John 1, I suppose they might.

2,723 posted on 01/13/2010 6:00:30 PM PST by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: HarleyD; wmfights; Petronski; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; RnMomof7; Gamecock

John 1:9-13

“There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”

“There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens the elect.” Wow!

Oops! “There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.”

“He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.” The Jews, the Chosen People, by and large rejected Christ. Paul spend Romans 9-11 discussing how it was that the Chosen People, heirs of the promise to Abraham, REJECTED Christ. They did “not receive Him”!

“But as many as received Him...” The word translated “received” means “to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it...to take in order to carry away”.

If I receive a package from Fedex, does the Fedex guy knock me down and shove it in my hands, or do I have the possibility of refusing to take it?

In this case, receiving is equated to believing...

“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God,
even to those who believe in His name”

These “were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”

The PDs say this means birth is forced upon us by God. FWs say this mean God has offered us salvation. Neither believes man reaches up to God, but that God reaches down to us, seeking us out and giving us a gift. The difference is do we have to accept him...and in verse 11, we read “He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.”

If they could reject, then why could we not? The FW interpretation makes more sense in context...the Chosen People did NOT receive him, but He DID go to them, didn’t He!

If Limited Atonement and Irresistible Grace were true, then either He should not have gone to the Jews (but He did), or they should have had to accept Him (but they didn’t).

Sorry, but these verses argue FOR Free Will, not against it!


2,758 posted on 01/13/2010 6:36:50 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: HarleyD; Mr Rogers; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; RnMomof7; Gamecock
John 1:12-13 But as many received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Is it free will if God knows what we are going to do?

Prov. 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, Like the rivers of water; He turns it wherever He wishes.

2,802 posted on 01/13/2010 7:53:44 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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