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To: HarleyD; wmfights; Petronski; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; RnMomof7; Gamecock

John 1:9-13

“There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”

“There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens the elect.” Wow!

Oops! “There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.”

“He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.” The Jews, the Chosen People, by and large rejected Christ. Paul spend Romans 9-11 discussing how it was that the Chosen People, heirs of the promise to Abraham, REJECTED Christ. They did “not receive Him”!

“But as many as received Him...” The word translated “received” means “to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it...to take in order to carry away”.

If I receive a package from Fedex, does the Fedex guy knock me down and shove it in my hands, or do I have the possibility of refusing to take it?

In this case, receiving is equated to believing...

“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God,
even to those who believe in His name”

These “were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”

The PDs say this means birth is forced upon us by God. FWs say this mean God has offered us salvation. Neither believes man reaches up to God, but that God reaches down to us, seeking us out and giving us a gift. The difference is do we have to accept him...and in verse 11, we read “He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.”

If they could reject, then why could we not? The FW interpretation makes more sense in context...the Chosen People did NOT receive him, but He DID go to them, didn’t He!

If Limited Atonement and Irresistible Grace were true, then either He should not have gone to the Jews (but He did), or they should have had to accept Him (but they didn’t).

Sorry, but these verses argue FOR Free Will, not against it!


2,758 posted on 01/13/2010 6:36:50 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers; HarleyD; wmfights; Petronski; Forest Keeper; RnMomof7; blue-duncan; Gamecock
If Limited Atonement and Irresistible Grace were true, then either He should not have gone to the Jews (but He did), or they should have had to accept Him (but they didn?t).

God "went to the Jews" to show mankind that no man can keep the law perfectly and therefore all men need a Savior.

Has God closed their eyes or not?

That's pretty basic Christianity.

2,959 posted on 01/14/2010 11:34:52 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Mr Rogers; Dr. Eckleburg; blue-duncan; HarleyD; wmfights; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; ...
If Limited Atonement and Irresistible Grace were true, then either He should not have gone to the Jews (but He did), or they should have had to accept Him (but they didn’t).

HuH? The Jews were a nation chosen by God for a specific purpose..to bring about salvation to fallen men.

He did not chose any other people.. He chose to save a man that was the son of an idol maker, a pagan and from his loins bring about the nation of Israel.. it was not happenstance.

deut 7:The LORD set his heart on you and chose you, even though you didn't outnumber all the other people. You were the smallest of all nations.

They were elect for a specific purpose. When the time was full the nation of Israel gave us the Savior..

He used that nation to show His glory through and make His name great in all the world..

That was the purpose of their ordination as His people.. among those people were an elect people that would be His adopted children..

2,966 posted on 01/14/2010 11:53:04 AM PST by RnMomof7 (Here I stand. I can do no other. God help me. Amen.)
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