Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[John Leland 1789]

My Bible tells me that Moses changed God’s mind.

And

That Jesus was touched with the feelings of our infirmities.

There are other Scriptures indicating that the above assertion is plainly false and at best grossly oversimplified.

It is part of the magnamimous mystery of The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that HE INVITES US INTO HIS REALM . . . TO CARE FOR US AS CHILDREN, INDEED, AS FRIENDS, . . . AND TO BE RESPONSIVE TO EVEN OUR PRAYERS AND THE THOUGHTS AND INTENTS OF OUR HEARTS . . . EVEN TO THE POINT OF GIVING US the desires of our hearts when our soul is fixed on Him.

HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH US IS A DANCE.

One doesn’t dance with robots . . . except in a comedy show or a sci-fi horror film.

---

This makes good Bible study, better study than Calvin ever got trying to filter truth through Augustine. Thanks.

[annalex]

Paul says he is with the Lord when he's absent from the body he was lying, eh???

The Elect are with the Lord always, this is why we pray to the saints, whose bodies are in reliquaries.

What does it have to do with the resurrection of the body on the last day?

[Cronos]

What NL is trying to say is that Moos say thatAllah IS YhvH and he is ONE. I don't think I have ever heard that. What I know they say is "Allah is greater!"

Muslimes say "La Illah Allah, Muhammad al rasure-illah, Shadwan al rasure-illah" -- "God is Allah, Mohammad is his prophit, God is one".

They copied that from the Sh'ma.

They also say "Allahu Akbar" --Allah is GREAT, not Allah is greatER

:Allah by his attributes describes the Evil One.: --> THAT, I agree with you

[Iscool]

A flaw in your argument -- Jews DO that and we can't deny that they worship the God of Abraham.

Nope...The flaw is in not believing what God said in the scriptures...

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Israel is blinded from the truth by God...They are the exception to the rule...You can't equate Israel with the muzlims in any way, shape or form...

[the_conscience]

did his works by his own calculations, that would be his debt to the Providence, but as he did his works by faith with no self-serving calculus

Where is any of that within the close context? You fail by your own methodology.

[Cronos]

But hey, if it works for you,,,,....Either way, it works for me...I have found Jesus so in your eyes, I was predestinated...I don't see it that way but that's ok...

If we can leave it at that, like the Baptists do, that's good. I just don't like the corollary to the predestined bit, which is that one Calvinist group splits from another and accuses the first of not being predestined. This is of course extended to non-Calvinist groups.

If they don't do that and freely believe, that's ok in my eyes

[Iscool]

That does not contradict any Catholic doctrine.

That's two of 'em...How many do you need???

[Cronos]

I was always under the impression that the papists looked at you guys as an inferious species...

That's incredibly false and one that seems aimed to divide The Church. Doing that is not doing God's work, rather the other one's work

[Petronski]

That's two of 'em...How many do you need???

Two verses that don't contradict Catholic doctrine. How many more do I need?

None.

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind words.

I persistently endeavor to take Scripture at face value as well as digging out the hidden treasures.

The essentials are not obscure, imho.

Nor, are the essentials all THAT arguable by fair-minded reasonable folks.

imho, almost by definition, if something is THAT arguable, it’s probably not an essential.

God was not THAT incompetent [i.e. he was 0.0000 to infinity flawed—i.e. not at all] God didn’t have any trouble at making the essentials clear, in His Word.

And, it’s usually not the obscure, arguable, seemingly conflicted Scritpures that give most of us our most trouble. It’s the ones that are starkly clear and starkly simple. Love God wholly—put Him first in all things. Love others as yourself. Forgive all—all the time. Avoid unfitting carnal judgment.

The stuff so much heat and so little light is about hereon is usually varying sized piles of relative chaff.

imho.

[Iscool]

The Elect are with the Lord always, this is why we pray to the saints, whose bodies are in reliquaries.

What does it have to do with the resurrection of the body on the last day?

Well, does a saint's head which is in one of your reliquaries or in a grave hear God...How about a grave or reliquary that has only part of a body; missing a head, or just an arm bone,does that body hear God???

If that dead body hears God, that means your saint is not in heaven...If Paul's body will hear God, that means he wasn't telling the truth when he said, absent from the body, present with the Lord...

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

That verse doesn't work for you if you believe your saints are in heaven or anyone you know is in purgatory...

[kosta50]

Through harmonizing Scripture. Protestants do not disagree that we will be judged by our works but those judgements do not effect our justification rather our reward

That does not agree with Matthew 25.

[the_conscience]

How so?

[Iscool]

That's incredibly false and one that seems aimed to divide The Church. Doing that is not doing God's work, rather the other one's work

Sorry, but that's the perception I get...And apparently some of the Orthodox at FR have the same perception...

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for sharing your testimony, dear brother in Christ!

But truly I was not venturing into the Predestination v. Free Will debate. I was presenting God's blessed assurance from Scripture.

Concerning the Predestination v. Free Will debate I would say that both are true. Scriptures reveal Predestination in Prophecy and Free Will in Commandments.

A thing is True because God says it. Whether or not it is logical or reasonable to us mere mortals is irrelevant.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. – Genesis 1:3

For he spake, and it was [done]; he commanded, and it stood fast. – Psalms 33:9

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. – Psalms 19:1-3

Likewise and concerning His blessed assurance, Christians need not live in fear.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. – John 5:24

And again:

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. – Romans 8:38-39

To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. - John 10:3-5

My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. – John 10:29

It's not because of anything we do or say or think but because of Who HE IS.

For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. – Colossians 3:3

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. - Romans 8:9

God's Name is I AM.

[Quix]

AMEN!

And to all a good night.

. . . random letter combinations . . .

the only group labels . . .

LUB

[kosta50]

Justification is both the judgemnt and the reward.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!

[the_conscience]

25:34 seems to indicate that those blessed by the Father receive the inheritance and then following those who receive the blessing seem astonished to have received it. Those who worked seemed almost oblivious to what they had done.

[Dr. North]

God preknew they would answer, but he did not predestine them to answer.

Good phrasing.