Who are the Catholics: The Orthodox or The Romanists, or both?

Me

[the_conscience]

I just witnessed a couple of Orthodox posters get kicked off a "Catholic Caucus" thread. I thought, despite their differences, they had a mutual understanding that each sect was considered "Catholic". Are not the Orthodox considered Catholic? Why do the Romanists get to monopolize the term "Catholic"?

I consider myself to be Catholic being a part of the universal church of Christ. Why should one sect be able to use a universal concept to identify themselves in a caucus thread while other Christian denominations need to use specific qualifiers to identify themselves in a caucus thread?

[Cronos]

CAlvinGod's commandment is to pray to Him

I thought CalvinGod didn't give you free will to choose to pray to him, but CalvinGod makes you pray to him, so in essence CalvinGod prays to himself through his puppets

[Cronos]

Was a missionary in Asia for 15 years.

And I;m sure you led many to learn about Christ. But you don't believe in predestination, do you? You do believe that you went for missions to Asia to give people The Word and let them choose God freely, correct?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Of course they believe Mary is a co-redemptrix. There have been lots of RC threads telling us exactly that...until they want to deny it for effect and then they ridicule posters who just finished reading all the comments by RCs saying Mary redeems humanity with her Son.

As you quoted Ratzinger...

"...the Blessed Virgin who silently followed her Son Jesus to Calvary, taking part with deep sorrow in his sacrifice and thus cooperating in the mystery of the Redemption and becoming Mother of all believers (cf. Jn 19: 25-27

Shameful.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

When 99% of "Catholics" are Roman Catholics it is a fair and reasonable term to use.

It's also just a foolish deflection by trying to cast the papacy as a victim, once again.

[Running On Empty]

This quote doesn’t declare Mary as Co-Redemptrix. The Church has never officially given her that title.

As for her taking part with deep sorrow in his sacrifice; we read in Luke that Simeon prophecies that a sword shall pierce her heart (that the thoughts of many hearts would be laid bare). She took part in the sorrow, as we do to this day, when we know sorrow for our sins, or when we have reason to grieve over the sins committed by those we care about (or should care about).

We all cooperate in the mystery of Redemption when we enter into this repentance and compassion for the price of our sins on the Cross. We cooperate by acknowledging sin and redemption, by accepting both our own sinfulness and incapacity to redeem ourselves. We cooperate in the mystery of Redemption by accepting the Cross and the love for us that brought Him there.

I am convinced that Pope Benedict would enlarge on this phrase you have put in bold, and explain it better than I have, but would also assure you that he has not proclaimed her as Co-Redemptrix. Some posters here say that the Church has done this, but that isn’t true. There are some Catholic writers who have implied or wanted such, but they are not in union with the Pope when they do.

I haven’t expressed this well; bear with me. I’m not a theologian, nor a preacher, nor a Scriptural scholar.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Your posts are getting more inane as the days go by. Is all this too much for you?

Protestants criticize actual and errant RC doctrines while apparently Roman Catholics can offer nothing but empty sarcasm like "Calvingod."

Your defense of your faith is non-existent.

[Quix]

just a foolish deflection

###

TO THE MAX

Particularly on the part of those who raise the biggest fuss about it.

The !!!!TRADITIONAL!!!! chronic, addicted finger frothers cliques.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

let them choose God freely

Lines like that reveal a real lack of Scriptural understanding.

"Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you." -- John 15:16

---

"Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee" -- Psalm 65:4

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The "ability to choose the good and act on the choice." is meaningless as a definition of free will if you actually mean, "As long as God enables a man to do so". It is the "free" portion of the term that has to mean "without any outside influence whatsoever" or it really is nothing more than a definition of "conditioned" will. And, that is precisely my point. Our wills are conditioned, not free.

Amen!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Not only does God not give the grace necessary to repent and believe to everyone, but He actually blinds some that they may not see or understand

Our salvation really is a gift, not an earned reward for being smarter or more clever than others.. Salvation is all of God from beginning to end!

Amen! As the Scripture you gave teaches us.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I think looking at scripture as a whole, you see God had set aside a people for himself throughout history.

He chose Noah,Abraham,Samual,David..the nation of Israel.. each of the apostles, Paul etc believe that God predestined those to whom He would give the ability to repent and those to whom He would give faith. Not based on anything that they had done, for this was before the world began..but based on His own will.

Is it necessary for us to individually repent and believe ..YES..but I would argue that it would be impossible for us to do that without an act of Gods grace and the Holy Spirit.

Unregenerate man has no interest in and does not desire to come to Christ in a saving way.

Scripture tells us "I was found by those that did not seek me" (Romans 10:20)... that is because none seek him, until the Father draws them (John 6)

Amen, Mom! That is Christianity.

[1000 silverlings]

The Israelites were elect, but not all of them were saved. None of them "attained" righteousness, any that they had came from God. They were a vehicle that God used for the Plan of Salvation.

The best analogy I can think of is a passenger plane. The passengers get on, and the plane is going to take them say to Hawaii. None are getting off. This is predestination.

During the flight, they are free to move about, eat, drink, read, sleep, watch movies, pray, read the bible. They don't know they are going to crash. That too is predestination. Some are going to die and some are going to live. Nothing they do on the flight is going to influence that.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Uh OH! Fancy footwork called for. I can see how it sounded like I was dissing the individual congregations, which I really would NT want to do...

I thank God and you for the affection in your rebuke.

And yet you just called the Protestant faith a "decay of belief" and questioned their devotion to their family as well as to God.

I guess you'll be thanking me now for bringing this crude error to your attention.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I like your plane analogy (sounds like “LOST.”)

I’ve described it similarly - like riding a bicycle onboard a train. You’re peddling. You’re moving. And you’re headed where the train is inevitably taking you.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

It is the our nature humans to act freely (i.e. to be provident for ourselves and others) by being inclined toward our proper acts and end. That is, we human beings must exercise our natural reason to discover what is best for us in order to achieve the end to which their nature inclines

Lol. Believing in a human "nature" such as the one you've just concocted makes it clear the RCC knows nothing about who men really are.

Self-deception is so unattractive.

As Katherine Hepburn said to Humphrey Bogart on the African Queen -- "Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are put on this earth to overcome."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I love the way the link says "The Bible proclaims its own authority" -- it's pure circular logic: Why is The Bible authoritative? Because it says so.

Because God says so in His own revelation of Himself to mankind. Those given ears to hear will understand this.

The Re-formatted statement falls on it's face. In contrast, the Church position is that The Bible is justified due to the tradition surrounding it.

And where is the authority, the justification for a bunch of changing, fallible old eunuchs and pederasts who presume to know better than the word of God?

[Cronos]

According to a Pew study, for every one Protestant who converts to Roman Catholicism four Roman Catholics convert to Protestantism

Care to provide the link for that? I looked on the Pew org site and couldn't see a study that defined that -- could you please provide the link where you saw this statistic?

[Cronos]

So, doesn’t the Orthodox Presbyterian group consider Machen a demi-god or a saint or some kind of redeemer? Or which among the OPC, BPC, EPC-Reformed etc. consider him what? Elevating a man like Machen to god-head just because he was the creator of the OPC cult is crazy

[Cronos]

Because your CalvinGod is NOT a God of Love, but a master puppeteer, more akin to the Gnostic demiurge Yabbaloath than to a loving God.

[Cronos]

let them choose God freely Lines like that reveal a real lack of Scriptural understanding.

So you mean to say that you don't like Quix's missionary work because it's no using preaching the Gospel? Because as per your calvingod, those in Asia aren't the "elect upper-caste" so there is no point telling them about The Word as Quix and the Baptists and Pentecostals and Catholics have done?