Posted on 12/16/2009 7:38:57 AM PST by PanzerKardinal
A "Progressive" Anglican church in Auckland New Zealand paid to have this billboard placed near their parish.
Here are some excerpts written by the Vicar, Archdeacon Glynn Cardy on the church's website touting what he did.
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To make the news at Christmas it seems a priest just needs to question the literalness of a virgin giving birth. Many in society mistakenly think that to challenge literalism is to challenge the norms of Christianity. What progressive interpretations try to do however is remove the supernatural obfuscation and delve into the deeper spiritual truth of this festival.
Christian fundamentalism believes a supernatural male God who lived above sent his sperm into the womb of the virgin Mary. Although there were a series of miraculous events surrounding Jesus’ birth – like wandering stars and angelic choirs – the real miracle was his death and literal resurrection 33 years later. The importance of this literal resurrection is the belief that it was a cosmic transaction whereby the male God embraced humanity only after being satiated by Jesus’ innocent blood.
Progressive Christianity is distinctive in that not only does it articulate a clear view it is also interested in engaging with those who differ. Its vision is one of robust engagement. If every Christian thought the same not only would life be deadly boring but also the fullness of God would be diminished. This is the consequence of its incarnational theology: God is among us; even among those we disagree with or dislike.
(Excerpt) Read more at stmatthews.org.nz ...
“How do you know he was the messiah?”
Daniel 9 narrows the field considerably...
Do you think the Book of Daniel can be interpreted independently from the Torah? If the Torah doesn't explicitly state that it is temporary and to expire at the time the messiah comes, how can Daniel confirm J*sus as the messiah?
I appreciate you agreeing that the messiah must conform to external criteria. Our friend doesn't seem to think so.
After about five hours, somone was offended enough to deface the blasphemeous billboard...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3168791/Church-courts-controversy-with-Christmas-billboard
Church’s bedroom billboard defaced after 5 hours
WRATH: The painted over Mary and Joseph billboard outside St Matthew-in-the-City church in Auckland.
SPIRITUAL QUESTIONING: The St Matthew-in-the-City billboard.
A mischievous bedroom billboard mocking the Christian conception story has been defaced just over five hours after it was erected by a church in downtown Auckland.
The controversial billboard, erected by St Matthew-in-the-City Church about 11am today, showed Joseph looking down dejectedly and Mary looking sad. Underneath is a caption, “Poor Joseph. God is a hard act to follow.”
The image, which the church said was put up to stir debate about the real meaning of Christmas, was seen defaced with brown paint shortly after 4pm.
“When I drove by at 3.30pm it was fine,” St Matthew-in-the-City spokesman Clay Nelson told NZPA.
He said a television cameraman had captured footage of the vandalism and it was likely to be handed to police and a complaint laid.
“We had asked some of the street people to keep an eye on it overnight but it’s taken even less time than that,” Mr Nelson said.
“We knew this would create a little bit of a fuss but I had no idea that my co-religionists had no sense of humour.”
Mr Nelson said the billboard had clearly succeeded in sparking debate, judging by publicity and the number of messages the church had received.
“This is going to be a topic of conversation on dinner tables around the world,” he said.
“Getting people to talk about Christmas in real ways is maybe worth a little bit of paint.”
He said the church would find a way to get the original image back on the billboard.
Archdeacon Glynn Cardy had said the concept was to get people to think what Christmas was all about.
“Is it about a spiritual male God sending down sperm so a child would be born, or is it about the power of love in our midst as seen in Jesus?”
He said the true importance of Christmas “is in the radical hospitality Jesus offered to the poor, the despised, women, children, and the sick, and says: ‘this is the essence of God’. His death was a consequence of the offensive nature of that hospitality and his resurrection a symbolic vindication”.
Archdeacon Cardy said the church had asked an advertising agency to come up with a few ideas in November, and that the billboard they chose wasn’t the most radical one offered up to them.
“One of the options we turned down had a sperm coming down with the words ‘Joy To The World’.”
Catholic Church spokeswoman Lyndsay Freer had described the image as inappropriate and disrespectful, while traditional values group Family First said it was wrong to confront children and families with the image.
Last week a campaign by New Zealand Atheist Bus Campaign raised $20,000 in public donations to fund bus ads which read “There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life”.
Those ads created a storm when they ran on the London Underground and British buses this year. Similar ads have run in the United States, Canada, Italy, Spain, Australia, Finland and Germany.
One of the comments...
PiNk iNk #74 11:48 am Dec 17 2009
I think its hilerious, but i honestly dont see the point in it! how is it going to get us thinking about christianity in a good way? its seems to be making more of a mockery than anything. I was extremely surprised to see that it was a church behind the billboard, mocking there own religion. Oh well it will definitly make people laugh thats for sure =)
..is Roman fantasy and part of its deification of Saint Mary!
It is plainly contradicted by the Bible not only by the CLEAR meaning of the versus listed by Elsie, but by the fact that Jesus had brothers (NOT stepbrothers, cousins, or any other twisting of the plain Greek word). James the Just was one of them.
Why on Earth do you elevate it to such an important thing? Mary was a human being, and she was married to a human man!
Does making love with her husband and having fully human children debase her in your eyes??
Their lives are a model for us, but it's wrong to portray her as a demigoddess!
Be careful T-N, those who he reprimanded that way were the “orthodox” who sanctimoniously looked down on others.
I disagree strongly with the churches that are more concerned about being politically correct and pleasing the world, than pleasing the Almighty. I certainly will oppose any contamination of my own parish, but I cannot, in good conscience, say they don't do any good. That is the Master's call, not mine.
Friend, I’m not here to sell you on anything. I’m here to tell the truth. I have done so. The ball is in your court now.
For some reason, you ignored the next line in my post: "Salvation comes from doing the Father's will, and earnestly repenting when we fail in that."
THAT, and ONLY THAT, is essential for salvation! Christ is our touchstone, that we may know when it is the Father speaking to us, and not the enemy.
I know personally that Jesus is divinely linked in some way; calling him the "Son" of God is a good term, but I also know that confessing that is not essential to salvation; FOLLOWING HIS TEACHINGS IS!
Jesus is the Messiah. He claimed to be I AM, the Creator of all life, and proved it by coming back to life after allowing Himself to be killed. If you don’t believe it, that’s fine; Saul of Tarsus took some convincing, too. I’ll pray that your “Damascus Road” experience comes sooner rather than later.
I’m afraid it is you who must face the fact that your doctrine is at odds with the Truth as told in the Bible.
The point I'm making is that a thousand years before chr*stianity existed, G-d spoke at Sinai. I thought chr*stianity acknowledged this; it's in your bibles. This being the case, the prior Revelation sets the criteria for any and all claimants of later "revelation." One does not accept the later revelation on its own authority and then read back the later revelation into the earlier revelation. This is a violation of every rule of logic and reason.
If chr*stianity does not claim to be the fulfillment of the earlier revelation, then it should stand on its own two feet and stop claiming to be "fulfilled" or "completed Judaism."
The "holy qur'an" claims to be divine revelation. The book of mormon claims to be divine revelation. The claims of all these "later revelations" is disputed. But the claim of the first revelation is universally acknowledged. If J*sus was indeed the "Jewish messiah," he had to have fulfilled the criteria set forth above all by the Torah and secondarily by the Prophets and Hagiographa. If he did not have to do this, if his own claims were self-authenticating, then take the "old testament" out of your bibles and leave it alone.
"Circular reasoning" ping to kosta50.
I’m afraid it is you who must face the fact that the Truth as told in the Bible only exists because the Catholic Church, through its divinely-ordained power to teach the truth, defined as Sacred Scripture the writings within it. No Church, no Bible.
Jesus fulfilled all that the prophets foretold of Him. He is the Messiah.
I know full well how the Bible came to be.
You STILL haven’t come to grip that your doctrine contradicts the BIBLE!
How do you know he did? Because he claimed to? Because the "new testament" says so? Because chr*stianity believe this? Because it is Catholic dogma?
BTW, I hope you also have a "Damascus Road" experience and one day come to acknowledge the existence of your forefather Adam.
As I have pointed out (above), the dogma of Our Lady’s perpetual virginity does not contradict Holy Scripture. Please go peddle your homemade Christianity to someone else.
How can we know anything? I believe it because the Church teaches it, and because the reasoning behind the teaching has convinced me of its truth. If you want more than that, sorry.
I think part of the problem with Jews not recognizing the Messiah is they were expecting all of the prophecies to be fulfilled by the same person—AT THE SAME PLACE IN TIME.
The Messiah did indeed come and suffered for the many as was foretold. He will come AGAIN and fulfill the conquering king prophecies.
It might also have been thought that Joseph was a shuttle astronaut and he got lost in space never to see Mary again...
There are many Christians who do not believe that a belief in the Trinity is essential for salvation.
I have no opinion one way or the other on whether Salvation will be denied anyone who doesn’t believe in the Trinity.
But I really DON’T believe that God or Jesus is going to give us a multiple-choice exam on our beliefs at Judgment. We know that because we know precisely what is going to happen. Jesus tells us his criteria.
We will be evaluated on how our beliefs drove our actions toward others. On how much of His character He can see reflected in us. Did we visit the sick, or clothe the poor, or feed the hungry, or visit people in prison. Would Jesus know us, when we were supposed to be following Him? Doing these things for others is as good as doing them for Our Lord.
Beliefs essential for salvation? From what Christ seems to say, our beliefs inform our deeds, and without them it would be difficult or impossible to please Him — the one equips us to do the other.
Be careful T-N, those who he reprimanded that way were the “orthodox” who sanctimoniously looked down on others.
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I’m always careful...
That’s why when you said...
“I, for one, am reluctant to accuse someone of not being Christian or saved.”
I answered you with...
“Jesus wasn’t...
and as a Christian, I’m not...
Jesus called them whited sepulchers, dead man’s bones, vipers, etc...”
Now I will just as carefully and knowing of what I speak, say again...
Mormons are not Christians..
I tend to agree. See #218
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