Posted on 12/14/2009 6:10:49 AM PST by Gamecock
Edited on 12/14/2009 8:41:30 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
Lawyers for the Roman Catholic Church urged a court Monday to let Christians use "Allah" as a translation for God and overturn a government ban that has become a symbol of religious grievances in Muslim-majority Malaysia.
The High Court began hearing legal arguments in the dispute, which began in late 2007 after the government blocked non-Muslims from translating God as "Allah" in their literature, saying it would confuse Muslims.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
And here we thought it was the “same” god ....
LOL!
If Catholics start praying to all’ah, I’m gone
Simple, just use “Allah” as the Catholic translation of “Satan”. Problem solved.
Too bad the Muslims hijacked it... and also too bad that Malaysian Muslims are too stoopid to distinguish between Catholic and Muslim literature.
My God is God. not some Allah!!!
Now if that is offensive that’s tough.
And what if you were a Christian living in a land where the name of God is not spelled G-O-D, but rather A-L-L-A-H?
Then what would you call Him?
I still don’t buy that the “arabic” concept for God matches the traits of Jehovah
I cannot consider Jehovah (and other ancient terms for Abraham’s God) and “allah” one and the same entity
god O.E. god "supreme being, deity," from P.Gmc. *guthan (cf. Du. god, Ger. Gott, O.N. guð, Goth. guþ), from PIE *ghut- "that which is invoked" (cf. Skt. huta- "invoked," an epithet of Indra), from root *gheu(e)- "to call, invoke." But some trace it to PIE *ghu-to- "poured," from root *gheu- "to pour, pour a libation" (source of Gk. khein "to pour," khoane "funnel" and khymos "juice;" also in the phrase khute gaia "poured earth," referring to a burial mound). "Given the Greek facts, the Germanic form may have referred in the first instance to the spirit immanent in a burial mound" [Watkins]. Cf. also Zeus. Not related to good. Originally neut. in Gmc., the gender shifted to masc. after the coming of Christianity. O.E. god was probably closer in sense to L. numen. A better word to translate deus might have been P.Gmc. *ansuz, but this was only used of the highest deities in the Gmc. religion, and not of foreign gods, and it was never used of the Christian God. It survives in Eng. mainly in the personal names beginning in Os-.The etymology of our own word "God" is a little, shall we say, dicey. So I think we should cut Arabic-speaking Christians a little slack, since as far as I know, they were using the word for God before Islam even began.
Not the Arabic 'concept'... the Arabic WORD. Even though both Muslims and Arabic-speaking Christians claim to worship Allah, that does not necessarily mean that the Muslims worship the One True God.
AMEN to that!
....The Catholic Church has taken legal action against the government after it was ordered not to use the disputed word under threat of having its paper's publishing permit revoked. Malaysian authorities argue the word should be used only by Muslims, who form the bulk of the country's multicultural population.
-- from the thread Malaysia Catholics oppose non-'Allah' Bible
On an highly emotional spiritual level there has been a great common-ground meeting place between Rome and Mecca in the town of Fatima in Portugal. To quote a Catholic news organization, "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed." On October 23, 1995, Iranian television began running stories that the apparitions in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 were religious phenomena of Muslim origin.” Islam teaches that men can achieve favor with God by what a person does. On the Fatima site in Portugal May 13th 2000, the Pope proclaimed a message that could be readily accepted by both Muslims and Catholics. “‘Pray, pray much and make sacrifices for sinners; many souls go to hell because they have no one to pray and make sacrifices for them’....”
-- From the thread The Papacy and Islam
This brings us to our second point: namely, why the Blessed Mother, in the 20th century should have revealed herself in the significant little village of Fatima, so that to all future generations she would be known as "Our Lady of Fatima." Since nothing ever happens out of Heaven except with a finesse of all details, I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as "Our Lady of Fatima" as a pledge and a sign of hope to the Moslem people, and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her divine Son too.On the Lady of Fatima:Evidence to support these views is found in the historical fact that the Moslems occupied Portugal for centuries. At the time when they were finally driven out, the last Moslem chief had a beautiful daughter by the name of Fatima. A Catholic boy fell in love with her, and for him she not only stayed behind when the Moslems left, but even embraced the Faith. The young husband was so much in love with her that he changed the name of the town where he lived to Fatima. Thus, the very place where our Lady appeared in 1917 bears a historical connection to Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed.
-- Archbishop Fulton Sheen, in the book The World's First Love
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
Why was this subject even raised in the beginning? Sounds as though there was an “appeasement” effort at play here. Let them say “Allah.” We know which God is the true God.
It’s really interesting to see how anti-Catholics here at FR and at other sites invent, distort and spread anti-Catholic nonsense.
Here is what Alex Murphy posted (borrowing from an anti-Catholic site):
“To quote a Catholic news organization, “Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed.” On October 23, 1995, Iranian television began running stories that the apparitions in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 were religious phenomena of Muslim origin.”
— From the thread The Papacy and Islam”
Note, he took this from a notorious anti-Catholic website. But look at this:
“To quote a Catholic news organization, “Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed.” “
Makes it sound like a Catholic News organization actually said, “Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed.”
That is a distortion of what was actually said (no surprise there!). Here is what was originally said:
ISLAM CO-OPTING FATIMA
Iranian TV: Our Lady of Fatima is Really Fatima, Daughter of the Prophet Mohammed
VATICAN CITY, MAY 13 (ZENIT) - On October 23, 1995, Iranian television began running stories that the apparitions in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 were religious phenomena of Muslim origin.
Growing Muslim interest in the holy site is sparked by the Portuguese town’s name: Fatima, which is Arabic. Portugal and Spain were both once under Islamic rule, and are the only such countries to ever break free from such a government.
According to historical accounts, in 1156 a battle was fought between Christian and Muslim forces in the locality. A Christian knight saved a young girl named Fatma (Fatima) from the dangers of the pitched battle. Later she converted to Christianity and married the knight, only to die shortly afterwards. In grief, the knight became a monk and the town was renamed Fatima in her honor.
According to Iranian Television, the woman who appeared to the three shepherd children in 1917 was not the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus, but Fatima, the daughter of the prophet Mohammed, founder of Islam. Her message was reported to be “I am Fatima, daughter of the Prophet of Islam.” This television report has helped launch the growing waves of Muslim pilgrims who have been visiting this Christian site in Portugal in recent years.
Catholics, on the other hand, say that the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to the three shepherd children. She told them to pray, especially encouraging the prayer of the Rosary. Lucía, the only surviving recipient of the vision, was entrusted with three “secrets,” of which the third has never been made public. She recently assured that the third secret was never intended for general proclamation. Pope John Paul II has had a strong devotion to Our Lady of Fatima, especially since the failed assassination attempt of Ali Agca, which occurred precisely on May 13, 1991, the anniversary of the first vision at Fatima (May 13, 1917).
End paste
Two and half years ago Alex Murphy actually posted the correct information in post #9 of this thread:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1831477/posts
This not only proves that anti-Catholics routinely recycle and recycle and recycle anti-Catholic material, but that they also routinely distort the truth to serve their own purposes.
Please note, in post #12 of that 2007 (!) thread Pyro posted this: “Yeah, but the article seems to imply that the Catholic news organization was saying that, not Iranian TV.”
And yet, here we are again with the same distortion posted by Alex Murphy as if Pyro had never pointed out that valid criticism in 2007!!!
I didn’t bother checking through the whole thread, but apparently Alex Murphy never once responded to Pyro’s perfectly valid criticism.
Two and a half years...and the distortions still get posted anyway.
So wait...you mean someone distorted truth in order to attack the Catholic Church?
This should not come as a shock, since attacking the pillar and ground of the Truth must necessarily involve lies.
Ping to Pyro
I know, incredible isn’t it?
What amazes me is how anti-Catholics can shamelessly post the same thing when it has already been shown to be a distortion.
Alex - and again I didn’t go through the whole old thread - never responded to Pyro in 2007. Will he respond this time and admit he is posting something with a distortion in it?
As a more general trend, this not surprising at all. A lot of those who hold these prejudices are willing to use news sources that they would normally would be skeptical of, just as another knife in their drawer against the Church.
Also, this whole "papists and Muslims are cozying up" nonsense is just a modern-day manifestation of conspiracy theoring, that the Catholic Church is out to get "Bible believing" Protestants.
Actually, you should write To quote a Catholic news organization quoting Iranian television "Our Lady of Fatima is really Fatima, daughter of the Prophet Mohammed."
I mean, that's what you should do in the interest of honesty.
Dude, the instructions on a bottle of shampoo confuse muslims.
Allah = Al’lah = Al Ilah (Arabic) = El Eloh (Hebrew) = Alla (Maltese) = Ho Theos (Greek) = The God (English).
Arab, Aramaic and Maltese Christians have been using the word Allah and similar since at least the 5th century AD when we first have written records in their languages.
In the Bible, God is referred to by the tetragrammaton (YHWH/IEUE/Jehovah/Yahweh as suits you) and Eloh/Elohim.
Jehovah/etc. is God’s personal name, such as He has one. Elohim/Allah/etc. is simply the word for God in Semitic languages.
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