Upheaval in the Anglican communion over lesbian bishop

Inside Catholic ^ | December 7, 2009 | Margaret Cabaniss

[NYer]

I don't envy Archbishop Rowan Williams. The leader of the global Anglican communion has had a busy couple of months -- on one hand, dealing with the news of the Vatican's offer of a personal ordinariate within the Catholic Church for Anglicans looking to convert... and now, on the other, with the Episcopal Church in the United States electing an openly lesbian bishop to the Los Angeles diocese. If confirmed, the Rev. Canon Mary D. Glasspool would be the first lesbian bishop in the Anglican communion.

But the global communion is still struggling with the question of whether practicing homosexuals should be ordained bishops, and a moratorium on electing other gay bishops (after ECUSA ordained Bishop Gene Robinson in 2003) was agreed to in 2004. Last summer, however, ECUSA voted to lift the moratorium, in spite of Canterbury's protests.

Archbishop Williams responded to the latest news:

"The election of Mary Glasspool by the Diocese of Los Angeles as suffragan bishop-elect raises very serious questions not just for the Episcopal Church and its place in the Anglican Communion, but for the Communion as a whole," Williams wrote.

The archbishop pointed out that Glasspool's selection must be confirmed by leaders of the U.S. church before she can be consecrated as a suffragan, or assistant, bishop. "That decision will have very important implications," he said.

At the America magazine blog, Austin Ivereigh thinks "schism" is too strong a word here, but he sees big changes coming:

[W]e're looking at a future in which there will be a much smaller 'core' Anglican church -- with which Rome will do business - surrounded by satellite groupings of Anglican churches whose communion with Canterbury will be largely nominal and which have increasingly less in common with each other; or which, in the case of the Catholic Anglicans, will find their home in Rome's new ordinariate plan. . . . The restructuring of the 70m-strong Anglican Communion is under way.

Father Dwight Longenecker, however, sees it as more of the same:

[T]here's not really very much to say that has not been said already umpteen times. Archbishop of Canterbury: "This raises serious implications..." Evangelicals:  "We really are going to leave this time. We really are. We really mean it this time. We do." Liberals: "One more step away from homophobia! Hooray." Anglo Catholics: "A woman bishop and a homosexual! Does that count as two strikes or one?"

ECUSA does seem to like testing Canterbury's limits. Whether this will be the straw that breaks Williams's back remains to be seen.

[marshmallow]

Of course it would occasion dispute, since such expressions are being proffered in an apologetic spirit, not in a spirit of seeking truth and clarity.

I'll supply you with a months free beer or wine if you can link me to anything in this forum which is not proffered in an "apologetic spirit". BTW, as Alex is fond of reminding us, intimating that I'm not "seeking truth and clarity" is making it about me, reading my mind, if you will and that, apparently, is a no-no.......right Alex?

So provide some "truth and clarity".

I've asked Alex on multiple occasions for the correct number and received no reply.

It's a straightforward question.

How many are there?

Or is it such a sore point that you don't wish to discuss it?

[Poe White Trash]

A Catholic-Orthodox Joint declaration of 1965 lifted the mutual excommunications dating from 1054.

This is from your own link:

5. Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Athenagoras I with his synod realize that this gesture of justice and mutual pardon is not sufficient to end both old and more recent differences between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.

Get back to me when the Eucumenical Patriarch of Constantinople recognizes the papal plenitudo potestas, or when the Bishop of Rome formally removes the filioque from the Creed. I'll wait.

[Poe White Trash]

I'll supply you with a months free beer or wine if you can link me to anything in this forum which is not proffered in an "apologetic spirit".

Don't be modest -- this part of your post is a fine example of truth and clarity!

I agree with you for the most part, except I believe that T&C show up more often than one might expect. Even on Religion threads.

I try my best. Others do, too. Sometimes truth and clarity just pop up by accident.

How many are there?

I'm not a sociologist of religion, and have no idea.

Or is it such a sore point that you don't wish to discuss it?

Oops! You're getting to be "apologetic" again! Not a sore point, just don't want to stray too far from my "reading list."

[Alex Murphy]

....as Alex is fond of reminding us, intimating that I'm not "seeking truth and clarity" is making it about me, reading my mind, if you will and that, apparently, is a no-no.......right Alex?

That would be the Religion Moderator who reminds you about all of those things. Saying that I am "fond of reminding you" about them would be "making it about personal" and would be "reading my mind".

[NYer]

What’s your point?

[marshmallow]

I'm not a sociologist of religion, and have no idea.

Thank you.

I appreciate the honesty.

[Religion Moderator]

Saying that another Freeper personally “is fond” of a thing is reading his mind and therefore “making it personal.”

[marshmallow]

That would be the Religion Moderator who reminds you about all of those things. Saying that I am "fond of reminding you" about them would be "making it about personal" and would be "reading my mind".

My humble apologies.

The word "fond" is indeed a form of mind reading.

I should have said "....as Alex frequently reminds us.....".

[Religion Moderator]

Post 47 should have been addressed to you.

[Poe White Trash]

What’s your point?

The obvious point that, all "gestures" aside, the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are still in schism, something my Eastern Orthodox friends are always quick to point out to me. And that this schism entails that each side thinks the other is deep in error to the extent that to say that they share a "common faith" in any real sense in absurd.

[marshmallow]

I must not say Alex is "fond" of anything.
I must not say Alex is "fond" of anything.
I must not say Alex is "fond" of anything.
I must not say Alex is "fond" of anything.
I must not say Alex is "fond" of anything.
I must not say Alex is "fond" of anything.
I must not say Alex is "fond" of anything...........

[Religion Moderator]

LOL!

[NYer]

The obvious point that, all "gestures" aside, the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church are still in schism, something my Eastern Orthodox friends are always quick to point out to me. And that this schism entails that each side thinks the other is deep in error to the extent that to say that they share a "common faith" in any real sense in absurd.

And your response to them is:

"It is to Peter that he says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18]. Where Peter is, there is the Church. And where the Church is, no death is there, but life eternal" (Commentary on Twelve Psalms of David 40:30 [A.D. 389]).
Ambrose of Milan

[Poe White Trash]

And your response to them is...

MY response? I have no brief to defend the Bishop of Rome's claims.

As for what I take to be your response, I've read that it doesn't work to well amongst the Eastern Orthodox crowd, especially in regards to the two points I addressed.

[Cronos]

question -- if I may, what is the Anglican Church in NA's stance on:

1. Priestesses?
2. Abortion
3. Transubstantian
4. Episcopal hierachy
5. Divorce
6. Contraception
7. Homersexuals (practising and non-p)

[Cronos]

The number of Protestant groups and sub-groups is in the thousands -- right down to the Western Branch of the Presbylutheran Orthodox Congregational Church.

Each Prot group splits and re-splits every time they meet a new Benny Hinn.

[Cronos]

One FAITH eliminates the acceptability of multiple denominations because we can't have one faith that believes both in marriage = man + woman and at the same time doesn't believe that.

Also, there are basic incompatibilities like between Orthodoxy and the beliefs of the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses or Christian Scientists

And there are incompatibilities between Orthodox beliefs and those held by unitarians

and there are incompatibilities between Orthodox belief and the belief in a deity that controls our actions and makes us do evil and then sends us to heck.

[Cronos]

The thing is that Alex can't give you an accurate number beyond 30,000 as the various groups split and re-split and join and split and split some more like amoebae.

So you have the PCUSA, then the APC, then the BPC, then the OPC, then the reformation of the PCUSA, then....

[Cronos]

Note -- Priestly celibacy is a discipline, not a basic dogma.

We do have married priests in the Eastern Catholic Churches like the Maronites, Syro-Malabars etc. And we do have married priests that have been accepted from the Anglicans.

That doesn't contradict any basic dogma of The Church

[Cronos]

The Church Western and Eastern are officially not in schism. None of the Orthodox would say otherwise. The two are not, however, in communion, but they are not in schism.